Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

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Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:11 pm

Hi there! I could really use some guidance. I am very new to Sketchup. I am trying to "punch" the flower of life pattern into a 3mm thick cylinder shape. See attached images for details.

I can recreate the 3d flower shape in Sketchup but then can't figure out how to push it into all the sides towards the centre.

I also tried using the draw on surface tool to draw my own "petals" to punch out. I can get it to work however I have to draw each one separate as I can't copy and paste onto the face and it is difficult to reproduce the exact pattern every time.

Can anybody offer suggestions on how to pull this off?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Lee
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby kimi kimi » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:06 pm

Reminds me of math problems in school. Modeling is easy, but you need to have a strategy for this. Which I don't have at the moment :D

Cylindrical part on top is easy, just make a cylinder, turn on hidden geometry, make one vertical stripe with these (), then rotate around center of that cylinder (press CTRL to copy while rotating). But for the bottom part which is spherical, that's tough, I don't have an answer for that now.
Maybe download some geodesic dome (that's built from triangles) and try to apply the pattern inside those triangles or on edges... Do that first and then do the top cylindrical part.

Don't give it thickness right away, use Joint Push Pull to extrude it later.
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:44 pm

kimi kimi wrote:Maybe download some geodesic dome (that's built from triangles) and try to apply the pattern inside those triangles or on edges... Do that first and then do the top cylindrical part.


Thanks for your reply kimi kimi. I will give geodesic a try. I may have to use a different program to achieve this not sure yet!
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby pbacot » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:56 am

it has to be 3d pattern? , Cutouts? I am not sure how best to do the deformation (Flowify plugin? Shapebender?), but I think there needs to be a unique way this pattern fits, based on the size and for it to work it would be symmetrical. So I would, if it were me.... decide how I wanted the pattern to fit first of all, then work on a section that can be mirrored and duplicated. It may even seem to be half of pattern, if you know what I mean, so you are only working on a small slice that is repeatable by mirroring and rotating.

Depending on the scale, you'll be adding a lot of smaller detail, so probably making sure the object is large enough before you work on it will help SU which cannot make tiny faces and will help you be able to "manually" fix things as you go. You can scale it up then down to the right size in the end to print.
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:22 am

Oh I see what you mean, like create a linear rounded section that has all the elements of the pattern and then copy that via rotation until it forms a circle. Great idea! Now lets see if I can pull it off! lol

The actual piece has a circumference of 22cm on the bottom and 60 cm on the top, so would you suggest that I start larger than that and then scale down or is that a reasonable size for small faces?

Thanks again for the suggestion!
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby pbacot » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:37 am

that might be reasonable, while keeping the model as clean and simple as possible. You can make a component of the section--also it would need to start as a full shape to get it right and you'd need to keep it geometrically correct so it aligns perfectly. With components you can have all the identical parts in the model and see how they work together as you go...I see some people doing this sort of work sometimes use larger sections sometimes smaller to be able to model consistent with the overall shape.
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:38 pm

pbacot wrote:it has to be 3d pattern? , Cutouts? I am not sure how best to do the deformation (Flowify plugin? Shapebender?), but I think there needs to be a unique way this pattern fits, based on the size and for it to work it would be symmetrical. So I would, if it were me.... decide how I wanted the pattern to fit first of all, then work on a section that can be mirrored and duplicated. It may even seem to be half of pattern, if you know what I mean, so you are only working on a small slice that is repeatable by mirroring and rotating.

Depending on the scale, you'll be adding a lot of smaller detail, so probably making sure the object is large enough before you work on it will help SU which cannot make tiny faces and will help you be able to "manually" fix things as you go. You can scale it up then down to the right size in the end to print.



Okay so I have reached another wall. I had it all figured out in my head but I can't seem to make it work. I have created the pattern so that I can drape it over the curved edge (I have a square in this picture just to test it out). Then I was going to copy the curved surface to form a circle. The problem I am having is the drape won't work. I watched numerous videos and did exactly what you are supposed to but nothing seems to work. The drape function just doesn't work for me. What am I doing wrong? Does anybody have any advice to get this pattern to drape on the face? I must be missing something important.

Attached is an image of what I am trying to do and if you want to see for yourself here is the file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vm3rrv9vit12p ... 3.skp?dl=0

I also tried draping from above, as a group and as a component, still nothing works...

Thanks for any help!

Lee
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby boofredlay » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:24 pm

This one stumped me but I think I figured out one way to do it. Here is an image of the finished object. I will try to post up a how to here soon...
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:26 pm

boofredlay wrote:This one stumped me but I think I figured out one way to do it. Here is an image of the finished object. I will try to post up a how to here soon...



OMG! That is IT! You are amazing. I am still struggling with this 3 days in... lol

Can't wait to see how you did it!

Thanks so much!

Lee :bounce: :shock: :enlight: :D
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby pbacot » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:16 pm

Nice!
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby boofredlay » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:56 pm

Here is the tutorial on Youtube: https://youtu.be/sQJoDYOCM0M


This is one way to do it. I am sure there are probably others.



Here are the plugins if you need them.

Joint Push Pull Interactive:
https://sketchucation.com/plugin/715-jointpushpull

Mirror:
https://sketchucation.com/plugin/762-mirror
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:28 pm

boofredlay wrote:Here is the tutorial on Youtube: https://youtu.be/sQJoDYOCM0M


This is one way to do it. I am sure there are probably others.



Here are the plugins if you need them.

Joint Push Pull Interactive:
https://sketchucation.com/plugin/715-jointpushpull

Mirror:
https://sketchucation.com/plugin/762-mirror


Wow boofredlay, that is incredible. I will give it a try although I think I have to watch your video a few times! lol Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I really helped seeing such a Pro tackle this concept that I have been thinking about for ages! Finally being so close is great! Now lets see if I can pull it off... lol

Thanks again and great work!
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby boofredlay » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:47 pm

Happy to help. Good luck.
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby JQL » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:34 pm

The pattern isn't right but it was a 15 minute doodle.

Using a single plugin: shape bender. Some kind of steped tutorial inside Skp.

Shape Bender.skp


Shape Bender.jpg
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:01 am

JQL wrote:The pattern isn't right but it was a 15 minute doodle.

Using a single plugin: shape bender. Some kind of steped tutorial inside Skp.

Shape Bender.skp


Shape Bender.jpg


Oh wow JQL another great idea! I tried shape bender originally but was going about it all wrong, I had created a kind of flattened pattern of it and then I tried to roll it up along the edge of the circumference, but that was a disaster as I couldn't get the pattern right. I even tried "unwrapping" the simple model to get the flattened object thinking that I could flatten it, punch the pattern in and then wrap it up again, but I couldn't get that plugin to work, it kept unwinding it for some reason instead of unwrapping it, so I gave up! lol

This is a very clever way of using the shape bender and then tapering that edge on the bottom, very smart! And very helpful also to share the .skp file. Thanks so much! Great to see the starting point with the tile.

This forum is GREAT! I was just about ready to give up...

Lee :)
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby JQL » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:05 am

maclee wrote:
I was just about ready to give up...

Lee :)


Please don't... Stick around until the point you will be able to help others as others helped you.

The cycle must not stop :)
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:13 am

JQL wrote:
maclee wrote:
I was just about ready to give up...

Lee :)


Please don't... Stick around until the point you will be able to help others as others helped you.

The cycle must not stop :)


haha, right! I have a feeling I will be posting quite often... Sketchup is such a fun program to learn and even more so when you have people helping you when you get stuck!
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby boofredlay » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:48 pm

JQL wrote:The pattern isn't right but it was a 15 minute doodle.

Using a single plugin: shape bender...

JQL, how did you go from the step on the right to the one on the left?
Capture.JPG

Also, your final shape has quite a bit of overlap. I assume this is not ideal for a 3d print. Curious.
Capture2.JPG
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby JQL » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:57 pm

I used shape bender using the arc of rhe pie.

In the end there's cleaning up to do to reach the last step as shape bender wasn't able to compress the bottom center part to an edge.
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby boofredlay » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:04 pm

:thumb: Cheers.
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby ntxdave » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:27 pm

JQL wrote:I used shape bender using the arc of rhe pie.


I have used Shape Bender many times but not sure I fully get this part. Fully comprehend doing the curve to obtain the shape of the vessel but do not fully comprehend how to perform the taper.
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:42 pm

JQL wrote:I used shape bender using the arc of rhe pie.

In the end there's cleaning up to do to reach the last step as shape bender wasn't able to compress the bottom center part to an edge.


When I bend my shape many of my petal cutouts get messed up, do you think it could be because I am working in real scale and I should start larger and then shrink it down? Yours stayed so perfect!

My real scale is bottom c=22cm top c=64cm height 24cm
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby JQL » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:33 pm

maclee wrote:When I bend my shape many of my petal cutouts get messed up, do you think it could be because I am working in real scale and I should start larger and then shrink it down? Yours stayed so perfect!

My real scale is bottom c=22cm top c=64cm height 24cm


That should be the issue. Try scaling it up by 10 and then 10 again until Shape Bender doesn't cause issues.
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby JQL » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:52 pm

ntxdave wrote:
JQL wrote:I used shape bender using the arc of rhe pie.


I have used Shape Bender many times but not sure I fully get this part. Fully comprehend doing the curve to obtain the shape of the vessel but do not fully comprehend how to perform the taper.


The trick with shape bender is that the edge that is parallel with the component, must be in the vertical projection of the component's X axis. Then you can control the final result precisely like this (click the gif):

Shape Bender.gif
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:23 pm

Using a single plugin: shape bender...[/quote]
JQL, how did you go from the step on the right to the one on the left?
Capture.JPG


It looks like perhaps he scaled it to match the size of the triangle?
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby JQL » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:01 pm

Check the following gif.
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:19 pm

JQL wrote:Check the following gif.


I was just struggling with that part. Great how you used the bend tool again to create that triangular shape at the end. Lets see if I can pull it off now... lol
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby boofredlay » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:28 pm

JQL wrote:Check the following gif.

This is great JQL however when you have to trim the edges because of the overlap the original pattern is destroyed. I have been struggling with the right angle to make the shape "wedge" to a point so no trimming is necessary.
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby maclee » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:50 pm

boofredlay wrote:
JQL wrote:Check the following gif.

This is great JQL however when you have to trim the edges because of the overlap the original pattern is destroyed. I have been struggling with the right angle to make the shape "wedge" to a point so no trimming is necessary.


What if you trim the shape at the beginning with the original strip. Starting the trim at the same spot the shape starts to bend and then ending it at the width for the bottom circle ratio. It would possibly give a bit more control over the scaling of the pattern but the angle would only work if it was a uniform arc. Is this right?
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Re: Need help punching pattern into cylindrical object

Postby JQL » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:03 pm

boofredlay wrote:
JQL wrote:Check the following gif.

This is great JQL however when you have to trim the edges because of the overlap the original pattern is destroyed. I have been struggling with the right angle to make the shape "wedge" to a point so no trimming is necessary.


Share your model at the same stage boofredlay, I'm sure there is a solution.
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