Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby gulcanocali » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:58 pm

I would like to announce that we have just released upgrades of Tgi3D SU plugins. You can find the new versions on the Downloads (http://www.tgi3d.com/index.php?Page=Download) page on our website.

The new releases include a new downsampling feature to reduce the polygon count of a model while preserving the model fidelity in a controllable fashion. There are also some enhancements and fixes to the existing features.

Below are the details of the updates in the new releases:

-- Introduced "Downsample" command to decrease the resolution of a mesh
horse1.jpg
horse2.jpg

-- Create mesh can create Bezier (i.e. parametric) surfaces, if the boundary is
1. A quad of bezier curves and the number of samples on opposite curves match
2. A triangle of bezier curves and the number of samples on the longest two sides match
BezierSurface.jpg

-- Introduced "Collapse" command to collapse the selected region to a point
collapse.jpg

-- Mesh editing (upsample and downsample) results are placed in a Sketchup group optionally to allow faster processing.
-- Cross Section Tool now supports measured motions.
-- (Mac) Plugin now works on Mac OS X v10.5.x.
-- (Upsampling & Downsampling) Preserve the texture mapping during upsample and the new downsample
-- (Texturing) Preserve SketchUp assigned material transparency in texture creation
-- (Texturing) Preserve the horizontal and perpendicular structures (e.g in buildings) in unwrap mode of texture mapping
-- (Texturing) Preserve material transparency and color in the texture mapping.
-- (Texturing) Do not display uv map in the texture if the seperate uv map output is selected.
-- (Move tool) Improved Bezier curve editing.

In addition to the updates included in Tgi3D SU Amorph, Tgi3D SU PhotoScan includes the following fix.

-- (Calibration Tool) Added user warning if a camera can not be found in the built-in or local database
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby Rob D » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:11 pm

Hi Gulcan
Do you know if there's any way to manipulate the UV map once I've unwrapped it?
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby Rich O Brien » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:23 pm

Here's a response I received to some unwrapping queries I had...

In texturing, the unwrap method tries to map the geometry with no distortion. Unwrap method works best when you can flatten the selected surface without any tears. If it has to place tears, it does not quite know where best to place them. You can indeed select chunks of mesh and texture piece by piece.

In either spherical or unwrap mode, the selected part of the mesh can be already textured, then the newly created texture will seamlessly merge with the existing texture. This is especially useful when you have to texture the whole mesh in chunks. This way you can edit your textures to be seamless between chunks. You can even repair existing texture seams using this feature.


I'm sure Gulcan will add to this.
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby gulcanocali » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:54 pm

Hi Rob,

I am not sure I understand your question correctly but here is my answer to different alternatives:

1. If you are asking for a UV map editor like in 3DS Max; No, we do not have such an editor.

2. If you are asking whether you could "edit" the texture that was already mapped on a surface; Yes, you could certainly do that from "edit texture" in SketchUp. What Tgi3D has additionally is that you can select an area that has already texture on it, the uv map will preserve it so that any further edits you do on the texture will merge seamlessly with the existing texture (second paragraph in Rich's quote essentially talks about that as well)

3. If you are asking whether you could preserve the texture while editing the surface, current version cannot do that, i.e. when you edit the surface the texture breaks. However we do have a very soon to be released new version where you would be able to do exactly that, i.e. the texture map dynamically adjusts as you edit the texture.
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby solo » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:03 pm

However we do have a very soon to be released new version where you would be able to do exactly that, i.e. the texture map dynamically adjusts as you edit the texture


Ooooh!! been hoping for this feature most of my Sketchup life.
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby gulcanocali » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:13 pm

OK here are a couple quick unedited teaser videos ;) to show what is in the works in terms of preservation of texture during edits...

Video 1: texture map dynamically adjusts as the surface is edited with various Tgi3D's own editing operations.



Video 2: The texture map is "safeguarded" and then "restored" when using regular SketchUp editing operations.

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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby muddpuddle » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:04 pm

Your teaser videos pushed me over the edge. I have made the purchase!
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby gulcanocali » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:25 pm

Thank you! :)
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby Pixero » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:31 pm

How does the license work?
One license per PC or per simultaneous user?
(Thea for example lets you install on up to three PCs but only use one at a time.)
Since I'm most interested in the texturing bit I think it's a bit too expensive if I need to buy three licenses. :?
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby gulcanocali » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:48 pm

Hi Pixero,

Thank you for your interest in Tgi3D SU Amorph.

Currently our licenses are issued "per computer" (allowing faster, local license verification without internet connection). The scheme you describe, what is called "single-user license", permits multiple copies (up to a certain amount) to be installed under the same license but allow a single use at a given time. This requires that the software be in contact with the license servers at all times and allow only one copy to be operational at a given time.

We are aware that many users now own multiple computers (at least one at home and one at work) and need to be able to use the same software on each without any additional cost. We are trying to figure out a remedy for this, we may move to a similar licensing scheme as described which will require some development time or maybe have a "2 for 1 sale" :D.

To our existing customers; please rest assured that any remedy we come up with will be "backward compatible", i.e. you will be able install multiple copies for single concurrent use (if we move to user based licensing scheme) or get another copy for free (if it is a sale)
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby Rob D » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:14 pm

Thanks for your response. I'll try to clarify. I have a highly simplified tree trunk that I've smoothed. I select the smoothed face and select Create Texture and tick the UV Unwrap method with Create UV. You can see in the attached images that the UV Map could do with some pulling around so that faces don't overlap. Is there any way to do this? If not, how can I control how it unwraps?

Many thanks
Rob

mat107807934.jpg


mat2168425175.jpg
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby gulcanocali » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:04 pm

Hi Rob,

Currently we do not have a way to edit the UV map. We do have plans for additional mapping methods, other than unwrap and spherical. For now, you can try following approaches here.

1. Try "spherical" as the mapping method. If the resulting UV map is not distorted too much, it may be a better mapping method here. To minimize distortion in this method you can work with smaller chunks.

2. You can select the area that had an overlap and portions from the surrounding area. Use "create texture" again on this area. The texture that has already been mapped will be preserved and then you can fix the texture to fit seamlessly with the surrounding texture in the image editor.

3. The "unwrap" method tries to map the geometry with no distortion, so in order to minimize overlaps or unusual tears you may try to apply texture in smaller chunks (in your case two chunks may be enough). Using a similar idea described in (2) you select second chunk to include portions of already textured area together with the non-textured area and then fit the following texture seamlessly in the image editor.
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby jason_maranto » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:21 am

Thank-you for these awesome tools -- I use the free version now but plan to purchase the full version in the near future :D

Best,
Jason.
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby Rich O Brien » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:23 am

You won't be disappointed Jason. I guarantee it!
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby EarthMover » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:09 am

Great work! You all are putting together such an impressive toolset. I love the free version, but all of these new features are really twisting my arm to make the purchase. My only request would be that the check for updates feature at startup be either streamlined or set to a manual check. Ever since installing the free Amorph edition, my waiting times at SU startup have tripled.
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby Pixero » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:21 am

EarthMover wrote:My only request would be that the check for updates feature at startup be either streamlined or set to a manual check. Ever since installing the free Amorph edition, my waiting times at SU startup have tripled.


Yes, that waiting actually made me uninstall the free version. :thumbd:
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby gulcanocali » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:23 am

Jason, Rich and Adam, Thank you for your kind words. :)

EarthMover wrote: My only request would be that the check for updates feature at startup be either streamlined or set to a manual check. Ever since installing the free Amorph edition, my waiting times at SU startup have tripled.

Adam and Jan, we have been looking into this issue. "Check for updates" is not the problem. In any case it only checks for updates every 10 loads or so, not in every start. We have some ideas we are testing right now and hopefully we will be able to speed up the loading process.
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby TIG » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:35 am

The startup time for Sketchup is I'd guess at least doubled if not trebled when Tgi3D tools is auto-loaded... You can't disable its loading and manually load it later as you need it, because using load or require with the tgi3d.rbs file seems to give errors... :?
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby bjornkn » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:19 pm

gulcanocali wrote:Hi Pixero,

We are aware that many users now own multiple computers (at least one at home and one at work) and need to be able to use the same software on each without any additional cost. We are trying to figure out a remedy for this, we may move to a similar licensing scheme as described which will require some development time or maybe have a "2 for 1 sale" :D.

Of all the single-user schemes I think I like the Messiah verison best. It's like a USB dongle, but using a standard (one of your own) USB memory stick.
Works great :)
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby bjornkn » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:32 pm

Sorry, but it isn't quite clear to me if Amorph is included when you buy PhotoScan?

They both seems to be able to make good models from photos.
I've been using Imagemodeler and Photomodeler for many years now, combined with SketchUp. Since Autodesk bought RealViz and removed Imagemodeler from open/single sales (need to buy Max or similar), and Photomodeler is not quite so good at modelling (and also quite pricey and with a very expensive licensing policy for us that don't live in USA/Canada - being forced to buy from local dealers with bloated prices), the availabilty of easy-to-use and affordable photogrammetry software is very limitied. That LockView tool looks very promising!
It looks like PhotoScan (Amorph) will do the job fine?
There's no calibrated cameras, but I hope that they take into account lens parameters/distortions?

I'm downloading Amorph/Free and PhotoScan/Trial right now :)
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby Rich O Brien » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:40 pm

Yes Amorph is included in tgi3D Photoscan. Photoscan is a standalone piece of software that exports to .skp. In fact when you choose export, SU will open with your Photoscan calibrated images loaded as scenes. It Photomatch on steroids :thumb:
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby bjornkn » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Rich O'Brien wrote:Yes Amorph is included in tgi3D Photoscan. Photoscan is a standalone piece of software that exports to .skp. In fact when you choose export, SU will open with your Photoscan calibrated images loaded as scenes. It Photomatch on steroids :thumb:

Thanks :)
Then I suppose that if you first buy Amorph and later want the full PhotoScan version then you could have those $150 deducted from the full price?
I asked support the same question, but they probably don't work at weekends (like the rest of us do ;)
At the moment I cannot afford to spend $1000 on a tool that I currently don't really need, but Amorph I need/want right now..
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby Rich O Brien » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:23 pm

I can't answer the upgrade to Photoscan part. But if you haven't availed of the 30 day trial yet then you'll survive the weekend playing with both.

But I do know the Tgi developers are hard at work with some user feedback suggestions been implemented. And the new UV addition looks pretty awesome.
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby bjornkn » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:30 pm

Rich O'Brien wrote:I can't answer the upgrade to Photoscan part. But if you haven't availed of the 30 day trial yet then you'll survive the weekend playing with both.

I just downloaded both, but had planned to start with Amorph. A bit short of time currently..
I hope that the PhotoScan trial period doesn't start counting until after installing?
But I do know the Tgi developers are hard at work with some user feedback suggestions been implemented. And the new UV addition looks pretty awesome.

Looking forward to that too :)
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby gulcanocali » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:47 pm

Hi bjornkn,

Sorry for the late reply. I do checkout SCF during the weekends and try to answer any questions as fast as I can but this weekend was a bit busy for me outside work.

@Rich, Thank you for answering with bjornkn's questions in the meantime.

bjornkn wrote:Sorry, but it isn't quite clear to me if Amorph is included when you buy PhotoScan?


Yes, Tgi3D SU PhotoScan includes ALL the capabilities of Tgi3D SU Amorph, and to answer your later question: If you want to buy PhotoScan after you have already purchased Tgi3D SU Amorph, the price of Tgi3D SU Amorph will be deducted from the purchase price of Tgi3D SU PhotoScan. However the price deduction process is not automated on our website. If and when they decide to upgrade their copies of Tgi3D SU Amorph to Tgi3D SU PhotoScan, we would appreciate our customers to contact our customer support so that their Amorph licenses can be invalidated and new PhotoScan licenses are issued to them together with the price deduction.

Rich O'Brien wrote:Yes Amorph is included in tgi3D Photoscan. Photoscan is a standalone piece of software that exports to .skp. In fact when you choose export, SU will open with your Photoscan calibrated images loaded as scenes. It Photomatch on steroids :thumb:


Tgi3D SU Photoscan "includes" a standalone executable "called the Tgi3D SU Calibration and Metrology Tool" which does exactly what Rich describes. The second part of Tgi3D SU PhotoScan is the plugin to Google SketchUp which includes ALL of what Amorph has PLUS the "automatic 3D surface fitting to photographs" feature. (BTW our team is working on some powerful improvements to this feature as well to improve the algorithm efficiency and quality of the match)

bjornkn wrote:They both seems to be able to make good models from photos.


That is correct but I would like to make a clarification at this point to avoid any misunderstanding. Tgi3D SU Amorph does not include the Tgi3D Calibration and Metrology Tool. So if you can get good calibrated image sets from another software into SketchUp all the tools Tgi3D SU Amorph has, together with its "view locking" feature, enables you to create 3D models from photographs. One other feature missing from Tgi3D SU Amorph is the "automatic 3D surface fitting to photographs". This feature makes it a lot easier to create surface meshes that match the surfaces accurately especially for complex, organic shapes.

bjornkn wrote:I've been using Imagemodeler and Photomodeler for many years now, combined with SketchUp. Since Autodesk bought RealViz and removed Imagemodeler from open/single sales (need to buy Max or similar), and Photomodeler is not quite so good at modelling (and also quite pricey and with a very expensive licensing policy for us that don't live in USA/Canada - being forced to buy from local dealers with bloated prices), the availabilty of easy-to-use and affordable photogrammetry software is very limitied. That LockView tool looks very promising!
It looks like PhotoScan (Amorph) will do the job fine?
There's no calibrated cameras, but I hope that they take into account lens parameters/distortions


Yes, Tgi3D SU Calibration and Metrology tool DOES take into account lens distortions and parameters. There are no calibrated cameras but we do in situ calibration for each set. This avoids errors due to environmental changes and aging.
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby bjornkn » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:06 pm

Thanks a lot for your in-depth reply :)
This really looks like it is the "missing link" for me, after being abandoned by Realviz/Autodesk and MetaCreations/Canoma/Adobe.
I wonder why you're not using the work 'photogrammetry' on your product?
If you did I would have found it earlier, instead of bumping into it by accident, because that's what I've been searching for as a replacement for Imagemodeler.

Have you ever thought about running an upgrade campaign:
'Abandoned by Autodesk/Realviz? - upgrade to tgi3D PhotoScan for $??? now!' ?
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby gulcanocali » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:19 pm

@bjornkn
Thank you for your kind remaks and suggestions. :) You are quite right about the word "photogrammetry", we do use it at certain places but not quite the "right" places, I guess, to generate search results.

BTW, we have released new versions of our plugins that include some of the most requested updates, see the announcement in the following thread:
viewtopic.php?f=323&t=36051

@pixero,
This new version loads much faster now, I hope you give Tgi3D another try :)
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby Rich O Brien » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:41 pm

The Safeguard texture feature is amazing... :thumb:


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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby muddpuddle » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:59 pm

Currently we do not have a way to edit the UV map. We do have plans for additional mapping methods, other than unwrap and spherical.


Very much looking forward to more mapping methods! :ecstatic:
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Re: [Plugin] Tgi3D SU Amorph and PhotoScan Update (v1.20)

Postby publied » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:59 pm

hi all,
i'm very interested in this plugin. a direct and simply question: what percentage of representation accuracy do you can get from a series of photos? 100%, 95%, 80%? (please don't answers depends ;) )
ciao
/paolo
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