Nameset intro videos

Nameset intro videos

Postby chrisglasier » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:19 pm



Here is the first version.


Chris

Full video of Kevin Kelly's talk at http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/kevin_kelly_on_the_next_5_000_days_of_the_web.html
web restructuring at 11.10 - 13.14
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Last edited by chrisglasier on Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Nameset intro video

Postby modelhead » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:28 pm

I am trying to pay attention but I just don't get it. Putting a 2d front end on a 3d world...seems too difficult (and a bit backword)...for my small brain. It doesn't appear that it would be useful for a designer/model builder. Who exactly would use this approach for model building and for what application? It seems to me to be designed for inventory/building measurement (data and material)...as you can see I just have no idea...if there is a place where I can learn a bit more about the concept and it's purpose, I would appreciate if you would send me there.

Cheers!!
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Re: Nameset intro video

Postby chrisglasier » Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:37 am

modelhead wrote:Putting a 2d front end on a 3d world...seems too difficult (and a bit backward).


Yes you have put your finger on one of the main problems I set out to solve. It seems I failed to point out clearly that each column can be in a different plane. A list of floors, in section; a list of spaces, on plan. This is the same problem that Lotus tried to solve with Lotus 123 v4 in 1987 - the first multi-sheet spreadsheet; so you are right, it is a bit backward, but in my view it wasn't really solved then and needs revisiting. It's interesting, and a bit surprising, that tech savvy Architects like SOM and Onuma Inc. rely on Excel for data exchange. It is surprising because the data becomes non-clickable. At the very least you could say that namesets is an alternative for that.

There is a website you can visit by clicking the button on the left.

Many thanks for your feedback - always useful.

My regards

Chris

PS You can also think of a nameset as an index of associations where 2D and 3D are irrelevant. V Bush first talked about associative indexing in 1945 - now, that's going back!
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Re: Nameset intro video

Postby modelhead » Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:48 pm

Thanks for fixing my spelling.....I hope you were not thrown by my pointed comments. I appreciate you explaining further. I will review your site.
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Re: Nameset intro video

Postby tbd » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:06 pm

I really like the UI. keep up the good work and let us know about the progress. :thumb:
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Re: Nameset intro video

Postby aadbuild » Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:10 am

I like the idea, of namesets chris. How do I go about getting a copy of the ruby so i can take it for a test drive? I was also wondering about the components, obviously the components in the youtube video are generic. How would I go about putting in say a special request component? I guess when specific components are added I could have a break down of them e.g. 6/820 doors timber doors with high lights, 35 lengths of 70*35 colonial architrave, and then also make a purchase order to send to the individual suppliers. Or could I use the URL link to request a quote? Do you invisage the suppliers that advertise on namesets to have prices & specifications to go with the components? :?: :thumb:
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Re: Nameset intro video

Postby chrisglasier » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:06 am

aadbuild wrote:I like the idea, of namesets chris. How do I go about getting a copy of the ruby so i can take it for a test drive?


There's much to be done before that, not just testing the machine and devices coding but also arrangements of names themselves, promotional activities and so forth. There is of course a Ruby file to make the connection between NS and SU, but otherwise NS is an application in its own right; its further development needs to be done carefully and needs to be properly funded. So right now I am trying to get as many people as possible to open the video as an indication of market interest.

aadbuild wrote:I was also wondering about the components, obviously the components in the youtube video are generic. How would I go about putting in say a special request component? I guess when specific components are added I could have a break down of them e.g. 6/820 doors timber doors with high lights, 35 lengths of 70*35 colonial architrave, and then also make a purchase order to send to the individual suppliers. Or could I use the URL link to request a quote? Do you invisage the suppliers that advertise on namesets to have prices & specifications to go with the components? :?: :thumb:


This is also part of the further development but my basic idea is that manufacturers need to register with a minimum required set of data: material, cost, delivery and so on. A nameset is of course a breakdown in itself, and because you can crosslink you can rearrange it with a single click to send out batched purchase orders. One interesting thing is that you have to use components; if they don't exist as a finished product, then a designer would need to make them from standard sheets of plywood components or whatever. Apart from timing, designing and building follow the same course. This should mean better understanding and higher standards.
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Re: Nameset intro video

Postby chrisglasier » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:36 am

Thanks for your support TBD. Here's a bit of welcome news...

This is very interesting and I’d definitely like to know more. Please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
Paul
PAUL SELETSKY
SR. MANAGER, DIGITAL DESIGN – SOM NY
SKIDMORE, OWINGS & MERRILL LLP
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Re: Nameset intro videos

Postby tomasz » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:16 pm

Chris,
It is very interesting what you have come up with.
Why have you chosen SU? For easy graphic presentation of actions?
From what I have already understood it is not just a new plug-in for SU, but literally new way of interlinking information. I am impressed how all those information is being displayed and how they are connected. It is definitely unique. Just from video it is hard to tell if it is really that simple.

It can greatly influence the way we design .. as you have described client, manufacturers, consultants could be involved in a design at very early stages.. interesting.

I see it could be a good tool for initial design stages when we, architects, need to figure out proper relationships between a site, client requirements and local development plans. Looking forward to seeing more info and testing.

Tomasz
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Re: Nameset intro videos

Postby chrisglasier » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:52 am

Thanks for your interest, Tomasz.

Tomasz wrote:Why have you chosen SU? For easy graphic presentation of actions?


Yes, but also it is universally available and, so far, free. Manufacturers can make or have made models of their products and systems. Designers can use the models for design and presentation, clash detection and so on, and anyone else who has an interest in a project can use it as a viewer to support instructions, orders, time scheduling etc. and, following handover (project and nameset) day to day use (like guestroom bookings). The most important thing that sold me on SU was the web dialog. Most programmes for AEC seem to me to treat the Internet as a kind of mail service, whereas with the web dialogs you can use it to make machines. Corporations introduced machines to automate banking, supermarketing and so on. So if the diverse work of the rest of us is to benefit from some automation we need a new type of machine.

Tomasz wrote:Just from video it is hard to tell if it is really that simple.


Please see http://www.sketchucation.com/forums/scf/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=13668&p=103205#p103205. I hope to post more detailed video clips and commentaries later today. I would interested to know if you then consider it "that simple" - I'm biased!

Cheers

Chris

Edit: Posted - see below
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More nameset videos and commentary

Postby chrisglasier » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:18 am

Andrew Dwight (aadBuild) suggested it is all very well having a good concept but it needs to be supported by showing what it will do in some detail. So here are some more video clips and commentaries.

THE INTRO (repeated for easy reference ... only one with sound)



PLUG IN (normal size SU window; reduced in other clips for readability)



The relationship between Namesets (NS) and Sketchup (SU) is quite different from plugins that are designed to work within SU. NS is a plug in that simply allows SU to accept instructions from NS via a single small ruby file of callbacks. NS is designed to encourage different disciplines to use SU components as part of their regular work. For example, a nameset, assembled to support design and construction of a building project, on completion is stripped of irrelevant data, and passed to support users, managers, authorities and other interested parties.

ANIMATION & NAVIGATION



At the end of a session, a new shortcut is created for the start of the next. Other shortcuts can be created and existing ones selected. This clip is really to show how animation brings relevant information into focus within a small UI - a machine (unlike a spreadsheet - a metaphor for paperwork)

ASSEMBLY



This clip shows adding a new name, selecting a component file and positioning it. These three activities might be done by three separate people with their own set of devices, at different times and in different locations. (The component file could be on a manufacturer's hard disk.) Devices have been lumped together here for demonstration.

Simply adding names (representing just ideas without preconceptions of attributes or properties) quickly assembles a nameset. Many can use it as it grows to set or retrieve data relevant to names associated with their individual tasks. This process borrows much from other object-oriented entities, like HTML with its elements, attributes, properties and events.

BACKUP DEVICES FOR LINKING DATA



The name device set helps those authorised to manipulate the common nameset but devices for backup (like plug ins) are specific to the nature of different tasks - model selection, time scheduling, costing, buying, QAQC and so on. Backup is the UI to set or retrieve data such as the examples in the following clip.



RESULTS

Every entry has a unique id combining the record index with its position in the record array (e.g. record[12601][12]). This means that manipulation of data is totally unrestricted enabling devices to generate all types of display and output. The next clip shows some simple examples of output.



Here is a repeat of an animation showing the manipulation of individual components along distribution paths on a timeline(supplementing GANNT and PERT charts with animations).



DISPLAY OPTIONS

As currently coded control of the SU display is directed from the web dialog. I used Jim Foltz's Custom Toolbars to make an NS toolbar similar to the SU viewer. This is fine for non SU users as the records are saved not the skp file. But for SU users, actions in the UI need to be sent to the NS records for bilateral connectivity; this would require some ruby code beyond my capability.

Some display controls have been included within NS UI for convenience as well as remote controls in group sessions.

Onuma team.jpg




The filter device means any component(s) can be simply excluded from the display.

OUTLINE STATUS

Javascript works; needs professional review and reworking. Comments act as performance specification. Total .js files = 173 KB

Sample devices for nameset, backup, output and display.

Name/value pairs for records.

Crude saving device using pop up window and copy and paste to text file.

Sample list of generic names. These are used as name cell id and, if product, component file name, otherwise name of list of associated names next in the hierarchy (natural links). The default is a wireframe cube with no search refinement. Generic names introduce refinement but are very wide; e.g. seat is used for any seat, from luxury sofas to stools.

Sample list of given names. Commonly used names related to generic names. Can also use input to amend or create new. Given names are displayed (default = generic name.)

Detailed concept for file sharing of components and records. The basic idea is that all participants store their own data, allowing others to link to it with pointers in their own records. Elaborative data is attached to the link. For example, a designer might link to a product and then position it, automatically attaching its coordinates to the link.

Sorry this post is so long; the concept of namesets includes unrestrained extendability, so I did't want to cut it too short. I hope this additional info will encourage more discussion to help bring namesets into use.

Thanks,

Chris
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Re: Nameset intro videos

Postby tomasz » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:40 pm

It looks Chris, you will have hard time with getting a decent feedback here.
Only those with basic programming knowledge, good imagination and a little bit daft can help you. I hereby volunteer. :lol: I would like to test what you already have if possible. I am not a professional programmer, but my Ruby knowledge, still being developed, is probably sufficient.

Frankly speaking, based on what you have shown here and at your website, it is promising, but a regular SU user won't even know how to comment on it. I am also nearly lost in the complexity of possible connections, buy definitely would like to contribute somehow.

Tomasz
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NS components and assemblies

Postby chrisglasier » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:43 am

Tomasz wrote:Hi Chris,
Installation went fine. There was no problem. I didn't get a bugsplat so far :)
I am trying to figure out 'why and how' of the concept.
First thought - you will have to trace all manual changes made to the geometry.. it will require a lot of observers. No one have already used them intensively, so it is not clear how they will work.

I have to test it better and will come back to you with more comments.

Tomasz


I hope you don't mind my putting your PM here. At least two members have expressed interest in NS development and they may have some useful comments.

To be clear, what we are talking about is sending name/value pairs related to each change to a javascript array within NS. Here are some thoughts.

There are two aspects: one is components which represent items needed to be purchased. At this stage I don't think NS should be involved with their geometry. So far I saved components as separate files, and because they are instanced from a js array, I can refer to entities[entityNo], for example, in order to show its bounding box. But if they are imported some other way, is there some nifty way to refer to them?

The other aspect is their positioning, which so far, I have done using NS devices. But it would be very good if this could also be done in SU UI and still maintain the NS records. I don't know much about observers. I guess they can "see" changes in xyz's, rotation and so on but can they also log logical relationships to other components. (design criteria type thing).

Thanks

Chris
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Re: NS components and assemblies

Postby tomasz » Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:36 pm

chrisglasier wrote:But if they are imported some other way, is there some nifty way to refer to them?

I guess there has to be an observer which checks if an instance of a component is added.

chrisglasier wrote:I don't know much about observers. I guess they can "see" changes in xyz's, rotation and so on but can they also log logical relationships to other components. (design criteria type thing).

An observer will tell you that an object has been moved (transformed), but that is all. The AI has to be coded to react on such an event. It is the hardest thing, I think.

Tomasz
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