Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby lexje » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:48 am

Well, the pictures I posted are from the stairmakers website, so they don't correspond with our stair to be. We'd need to cover a height of 3100 mm in 17 treads, so each riser would need to be 182,35 mm. Also, there's something as the 'walkline' (translated literally, maybe it should be line of walk (?)) This line of walk would indicate that each tread be 230 mm across at a radius of 650 mm...
If I'm not mistaken you're thinkering of 16 or 18 to be a multiple of a pair?

Erwin
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby Gaieus » Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:54 am

Well, true that not exactly the same dimensions... Especially the "walkline" - I used completely different measures so this is just an example.

The 18 is handy because 360 can be divided by 18. Then you take two of them and have a very similar number as your 324,xxx degrees (exactly 320).

When working with segmented curves in SU, it is extremely hard to count with those long decimal digits.
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby TIG » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:09 am

Had I realized you wanted to make 'spiral stairs' I would have suggested my 'Grow' tool...
Unzip this Grow.zip file and put the resultant Grow.rb into the Plugins folder and the growCursor.png into the Plugins/Icons folder [just as they are zipped].
The attached skps have some tutorials on how to make a helical [spiral] stair and also helices in general...
Grow.zip
GrowHelicalSteps.skp
GrowHelix.skp
GrowHelicalSteps.png
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby TIG » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:34 am

When making spiral steps there are often rules/codes to adhere to..
In the UK on narrower flights <1m [typically domestic or small commercial flights] you must have at least 50mm of plan-tread at the innermost part and the plan-tread on the centerline should be even for every step, and follow the rule 2R+G >=550mm <=700mm - where R is the Rise and G is the Going [plan-tread].
If you draw this in plan it limits the relative angle of adjacent nosings and effectively sets a limit on the taper angle between them = ~15degrees depending on the configuration etc...
For wider stairs you measure in from both edges [strings] 270mm and the same max/min pitch applies, 2R+G >=550mm <=700mm to the two locations
Any landings shall be the same length as their width measured along their centerline.
The minimum/maximum allowable Rise and Going varies with the building type too.
'Private Stair'[one dwelling] R >=155mm <=220mm and G >=223mm <=300mm [vertical pitch is also limited to 42 degrees - usually trapped by 2R+G rules]
'Institutional and Assembly Stair' R >=135mm <=180mm and G >=280mm <=340mm
'Other Stair' R >=150mm <=190mm and G >=250mm <=320mm
BUT AD-Part-M [accessible/disabled=all commercial/public building etc] R <= 170mm G >= 250mm
It's best to draw some test treads and place rotate a couple to see it they are right before committing to a complex 3D assembly...
:enlight:
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby TIG » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:03 am

I have fixed the problems with drawhelix13.rb.
It now allows turns that are not whole numbers...
Here it is
drawhelix13_TIGd.rb
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby dylan » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:13 am

Nice information TIG.

Did you use another ruby for the stringer?
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby TIG » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:19 am

No - it's made as a part of the tread and Grown... ;)
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby lexje » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:33 am

Hi TIG, thanks a tremendous lot for your input :-)
Greatly appreciated (Gaieus too b.t.w)
I did explain the spiral stair stuff though, see herehttp://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=26214

I'll give your attachments a whirl soon and post back.
Although I must say my last experiments with Goh's toolkit are promising. (I've not found how to change direction of rotation clockwise/counterclockwise though)
One advantage I see in using Goh's plugin is that the treads are more detailed i.e. the outside of the tread are 'curved' instead of straight.

Nevertheless a couple of questions:
I'm native Dutch (Flemish) speaking, our stairmaker is French, and out here we're talking English, certainly with this kind of lingo I need some vocabulary help :-)

Let me first paraphrase the layout of our stairs to be:
Hellicoïdal with hollow core with R=200 mm
Riser = 182,3 mm for V1
Riser = 189,2 mm for V2
Going = 230 mm (Giron in French)
LF = Ligne de foulée ~= "walkline" ~= plan-tread (??)
Plan-tread @ R = 650 mm -> V1 = 3/4T + 1/8T +107 mm
-> V2 = 3/4T - 70 mm

I really think, in conjunction with what I learnt from the stairmaker, the best way is to draft a plan and side view (like the picture I posted before), and build your model from there, as I also found in a post from TaffGoh here http://forums.sketchucation.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=12511

I must say, although the ruby depot is a tremendous help, it's lacking responsiveness, and certainly for newcomers, clarity and a little more context.
E.g. most rb-scripts are already several years old and have often already been improved upon or contained within newer / other ones. Also a minimal documentation including ONE picture would often help to at least give an impression of what it's all about.

One request remaining:
For clarity's sake and certainly for others researching this 'specialized' knowledge - would you mind drafting a quick SU image adding the lingo 'terms' to exclude misinterpretation?

Thanks again for this great and responsive forum and all the help!! :berserk:

Erwin
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby lexje » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:35 am

TIG wrote:I have fixed the problems with drawhelix13.rb.
It now allows turns that are not whole numbers...
Here it is
drawhelix13_TIGd.rb

Jeez, TIG you fix faster than I can think & write :-))) :sketchstatic:

Erwin
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby lexje » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:48 am

B.t.w How do I get URL's right??
That is: to not show up as the full URL, but as a 'clickable' word?
I've had a look [url]http://www.phpbb.com/community/faq.php?mode=bbcode/]here[/url], but this doesn't seem to work..
Allthough the one below DOES work ?

Linking to another site
phpBB BBCode supports a number of ways of creating URIs (Uniform Resource Indicators) better known as URLs.

* The first of these uses the tag, whatever you type after the = sign will cause the contents of that tag to act as a URL. For example to link to phpBB.com you could use:

Visit phpBB!

This would generate the following link, Visit phpBB! Please notice that the link opens in the same window or a new window depending on the users browser preferences.


Erwin
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby Gaieus » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:37 pm

I'm native Dutch (Flemish) speaking...

Haha... We know that1s not the same (I had a Flemish room-mate when I went to an American univ. for a semester ;) )

Anyway, for staircase building, TIG's Grow is definitely a good tool (and thanks TIG for a revised version or the helix plugin, too).

lexje wrote:B.t.w How do I get URL's right??

This is not the correct way:
Code: Select all
[url]http://www.phpbb.com/community/faq.php?mode=bbcode/]here[/url]

But do it like this:
Code: Select all
[url=http://www.phpbb.com/community/faq.php?mode=bbcode/]here[/url]

And the result will be this:
here
_______

Edit: wow, does somebody read the FAQ???
You have a bright future here, my friend! (Just look at what our other moderator, solo has in his signature about this)
;)
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby lexje » Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:19 pm

Code: Select all
Edit: wow, does somebody read the FAQ???
You have a bright future here, my friend! (Just look at what our other moderator, solo has in his signature about this)
;)


:D As a matter of fact, I did search the FAQ, and it simply is not there (correct me if I'm wrong)Off course being the better than average user, I searched phpBB's faq for this... Hence..

Solo doesn't seem to have too much of a Stoppelbaard :-)

Erwin
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby stefx » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:18 pm

Hi,
I have just tried the plugin about Helix and it works perfectly!.
So I want to thank you, guys, for the script and the info.
Then I have a question:
I would like draw my helix/spiral giving the radius and the pitch information but I would like to decide the height of the spiral.
For example



In the image I have a fixed height 11590mm and in the whole height I have to build my helix. I have tried with some parameters in terms of radius and pitch (the radius is fixed as well) but it is smaller.
Any tips?
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby TIG » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:17 pm

Once the helix is made with the expected turns etc you can Scale it in the Z, typing in 1590mm [note the units 'mm'] - it then scales to that exact z-size rather than by a factor...
:geek:
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby stefx » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:39 pm

Thank you TIG.
I have tried and it works.
:bounce:
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby PlyrJames791 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:01 pm

:geek: I'm currently working on a plugin that can produce a highly customizable curved or spiral staircase in SketchUp.
I hope to release it soon, but in the meantime, take a look at this page:
http://www.freesketchupplugins.co.uk/spiral_staircase.php

As for a helix, I also have a tool that will make one. Unlike helix.rb or drawhelix13.rb, this will automatically give it a thickness based on a value you can specify. http://www.freesketchupplugins.co.uk/springtool.php
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby pilou » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:05 am

Seems you have one inside 1001bits
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Re: Helix - not one full turn - HOWTO?

Postby PlyrJames791 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:58 am

:geek: The plugin on 1001 bits is nothing to do with me. This one is freeware, not a trial:
http://www.freesketchupplugins.co.uk/springtool.php
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