[Example] V-Ray Displacement

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[Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby thomthom » Thu May 27, 2010 9:10 am

In response to some general displacement questions, here is a sample displacement test rendered in VfSU 1.48.83.

Notes on displacement in VfSU
1. Always isolate the geometry you want to displace. If any displaced mesh connects to other mesh with different materials it won't work.

2. Displacement takes lots of memory. You can quickly run out of memory with this on. The larger the face your displace, the more it needs to keep in memory while it processes that face. Avoid large faces and sub-divide if necessary.

3. Displacements increases rendering times. Don't use it unless you actually see a big enough difference. Quite possibly a bumpmap will do the job instead.

Example
test render.png


Note that I set the bitmap filter to 0 for these kind of displacement to avoid blurring of the texture and as a result soft transitions. For this kind of displacement you want a hard edge - so remove all filtering.


For more reading on displacement in VfSU: viewtopic.php?f=322&t=18202&start=15
Note: In 1.48.66+ you do not need to set an inverted gamma for the displacement maps in order to render them linear.
Here is the same scene from: viewtopic.php?f=322&t=18202&start=15#p148769

Linear Displace.png



Also be aware that JPEG artefacts can cause regularities in your displacement.

Here is a render with a displacement texture that suffer from JPEG artefacts:
compressed textures.png


Because the texture consist of clean geometric lines, the lossy compression filters becomes more visible. Next example is the same texture, just with lossless compression:
uncompressed textures.png
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby Aidus » Thu May 27, 2010 9:15 am

I need such result in maxwell :)
Try to render some grass on big area with lots of triangles using this map:
grass_D.jpg

grass.jpg
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby thomthom » Thu May 27, 2010 10:16 am

grass01.png


Here's a quick test.

I am not a fan of displaced grass.
  • It does not look real - looks like spikes. Especially when the displacement is overdone. If reduced it's usually so subtle that displacement is not needed.
  • You need to the UV coordinates 100% right to avoid gaps when displacing irregular geometry this this sample.
  • It slow!
  • It chews up memory like a cookie monster at the cookie factory. Bad thing for VfSU that is locked inside SU's 32bit system.
  • Adding grass in post is quicker, more reliable and yields better results.
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby kalu » Thu May 27, 2010 8:09 pm

Hi:

I am in trouble to make this works, I try to make a siding for a project and I can't make the displacement work, any way that someone attach all the modifications that I need also the correct settings, I use the latest Vray just purchased and I have no good feedback from Asgvis, still waiting for the forum and i have a deadline, any help please will be really appreciated...

Kalu! :ecstatic:
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby thomthom » Thu May 27, 2010 9:30 pm

kalu wrote:Hi:

I am in trouble to make this works, I try to make a siding for a project and I can't make the displacement work, any way that someone attach all the modifications that I need also the correct settings, I use the latest Vray just purchased and I have no good feedback from Asgvis, still waiting for the forum and i have a deadline, any help please will be really appreciated...

Kalu! :ecstatic:


  1. First rule of displacement in VfSU. Isolate the geometry with the material you want to displace. In your example that means selecting the wall faces and grouping them.
  2. You had set the displacement mapping type to UVWGenObject - but in 99.9% of the cases you want to leave it to UVWGenChannel which means it uses the SU UV mapping.
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby kalu » Thu May 27, 2010 10:02 pm

thomthom wrote:
kalu wrote:Hi:

I am in trouble to make this works, I try to make a siding for a project and I can't make the displacement work, any way that someone attach all the modifications that I need also the correct settings, I use the latest Vray just purchased and I have no good feedback from Asgvis, still waiting for the forum and i have a deadline, any help please will be really appreciated...

Kalu! :ecstatic:


  1. First rule of displacement in VfSU. Isolate the geometry with the material you want to displace. In your example that means selecting the wall faces and grouping them.
  2. You had set the displacement mapping type to UVWGenObject - but in 99.9% of the cases you want to leave it to UVWGenChannel which means it uses the SU UV mapping.


Hi thomas, can you be a little more specific with the settings I am new in the VRAY world and I spend 8-10 hours a day learning and if you can be more step by step I am very happy...I will try the changes for now but I hope you can explain a little mroe in detail. Again, thank you so much for your time...

Kalu!
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Last edited by kalu on Thu May 27, 2010 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby thomthom » Thu May 27, 2010 10:10 pm

The only thing you need to do to displace the walls is group the walls so they do not connect to any other geometry with different material and set the mapping type for your displacement map to UVQGenChannel.

You might want to adjust the Edge Length to increase quality, but that depends solely on the view you render from.
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby valkama » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:56 pm

Thanks Thomthom for the excellent advice. Very helpful!
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby fuzzion » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:55 pm

Do Bumpmaps in vfsu take up just as much memory :?:
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby EarthMover » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:31 pm

Josh,

No. Bump maps are processed as normal light bounce calculations. While displacement creates additional geometry. This additional geometry is loaded and unloaded from memory during rendering. Depending on the intensity of the remaining calculations, sometimes the displacement will over tax your ram. The larger the displaced faced, the more is loaded into memory before it is unloaded. By subdividing, Vray can load and unload smaller amounts into memory, saving the overall memory consumption.

To test, open your task manager and view the ram usage during rendering, using first bump, and then displacement.
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby AcesHigh » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:54 pm

thomthom wrote:
grass01.png


Here's a quick test.

I am not a fan of displaced grass.
  • It does not look real - looks like spikes. Especially when the displacement is overdone. If reduced it's usually so subtle that displacement is not needed.
  • You need to the UV coordinates 100% right to avoid gaps when displacing irregular geometry this this sample.
  • It slow!
  • It chews up memory like a cookie monster at the cookie factory. Bad thing for VfSU that is locked inside SU's 32bit system.
  • Adding grass in post is quicker, more reliable and yields better results.



how do you add the correct shadows, to post processed grass?

how do you make the post processed grass looks real (3d) when in contact with other surfaces. I mean... post processed grass looks FLAT...
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby thomthom » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:14 am

Use a layer blend mode so you mix the shades of the underlaying layer. Or render out the image in mulitple passes which you can overlay.
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby simon le bon » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:05 am

Hi guys,
Sorry for disturbing: I don't know nothing about Vray..

But I find Displacement incredibly amazing.




8-)

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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby pyroluna » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:08 pm

Thanks Thomthom! Very helpful!
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby arail1 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:08 am

Very frustrated.
I'm trying to learn a bit of Vray before my demo expires, then I'm back to modo until some more $$ comes in.

I can't seem to get displacement to work. Is there a global switch somewhere that I'm overlooking? I've downloaded all of the files in this thread, opened them without changing any settings and I get nothing.

Any ideas of what I'm doing wrong or what I'm not doing?

Thanks
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby 3deviator » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:12 am

arail1 wrote:Very frustrated.
I'm trying to learn a bit of Vray before my demo expires, then I'm back to modo until some more $$ comes in.

I can't seem to get displacement to work. Is there a global switch somewhere that I'm overlooking? I've downloaded all of the files in this thread, opened them without changing any settings and I get nothing.

Any ideas of what I'm doing wrong or what I'm not doing?

Thanks


hello arail1, i dont know if this works for you, recently I play vray displacement on grass. And accidentaly found out this settings for grass displacement. I used vray 1.49.01 demo, and heres my settings.
1. I use the grass textured (attachment no.1) in the difuse layer and the displacement attachment no.2
2. Then in my material editor, at Maps, load the displacement file (attachment no.2) then adjust the U & V equal to 2.0, then check the invert box as shown in picture 7,

3. After that, I adjust the displacement multiplier to 5 and the edge length to 3.0 as shown in pictures also. (picture 4)
4. Then in the V-RAY OPTION. go to Displacement menu then adjust the amount to 2.0 and edge length to 5.0. (see picture 5)
5. finally hit render botton.
I attached also the output of that settings (picture 6), and some other output, i just change the amount of displacement and edge length.

Thats it, hopefully this will help you.
Cheers! :P



Krisnel
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby arail1 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:46 pm

Thanks 3deviator -

I dragged some displacement maps I use in modo into my SketchUp scene and now I have displacement. I assumed downloading some of the files from this thread and hitting Render without doing anything else would work but for some reason it doesn't, not sure why. But whatever, I seem to have overcome the problem.
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby thomthom » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:05 am

Make sure you group the faces with the displaced materials.
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby mingjae » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:30 pm

hi thomthom,

I want to ask the basic pattern of displacement map,
is it extrude the black colour and nothing in white?

what about if i use a coloured jpg image as displace maps
eq, using the same jpeg image in diffuse and displacement maps
is it displaced?

i already try bump maps , make more realistic in texturing, but not more realistic if i render the corner of a room with applied 30x30 tiles on it (look realistic on the texture but not at the edge/ corner at the tile)

maybe, can u share step by step the setting of doing this rendering corner of a room with 30x30 tile? thx

SU 8+vray 1.49.01
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby valerostudio » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:20 pm

I remember reading something about a 'trick' to get displacement to calc faster on a final rendering. Does anyone remember the process. It had something to do with running the rendering with displacement off and then saving the IR and LC maps and then re-running the rendering? It was supposed to increase render times dramatically.
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby andybot » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:14 pm

That's pretty much it. If you only have a few materials with displacement, you can turn of the disp. map for those materials and run a render at 1/2 the final resolution (height and width), then saving the LC and IR maps. Then change your settings to render LC and IR map from file, change resolution back to full res, and turn back on the disp. maps. The rendering should then start right into the final render pass. One warning though, there's a bug in the current version where the saved maps don't load correctly. I don't recall the workaround now, but it was discussed in the asgvis (now chaosgroup) forum. I'll post some info if I can dig it up. I think it had to do whether autosave image was turned on or not. (It needs to be turned on and a file path selected.)

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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby fuzzion » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:13 am

Displacement mapping made with 1.49 vfsu. Texture taken
from http://luzindirecta.luxisessentia.com/
HDRI sky hyperfocal
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby valerostudio » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:02 pm

Did we ever figure out the workaround for the 1/2 res LC IR saving in 1.49.01?
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby thirty6 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:14 pm

The scene that ThomThom has been good enough to supply has a link to the displacement on a local machine.

If you save this map to your pc and then link to it, the scene should render fine.

Hope this helps

Matthew
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby valerostudio » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:24 pm

I might have been clear. I apologize for that. What I am referring to is the workaround that lets you rendering at 1/2 res with displace off and then you load your IR Map and LC Maps and render at full res. Andy mentions that he thinks there is a bug in the latest version that will not let you load the IR and LC maps properly. That's my issue right now.
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby andybot » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:49 am

@valerostudio: I had a thread about this on the Chaosgroup forum. There is a trick that's worked most of the time - has to do with autosave. As long as you have a file name selected in the IRmap autosave slot, the saved maps seem to work.

bug and solution for indirect illumination autosave bug
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby Moderat » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:34 pm

3deviator wrote:3deviator

I followed your steps, I liked the result.
When I preview render in the material editor it looks good, but when I do a render from my scene it doesn't show the displacement.. I have this when rendering other kind of materials with displacement too. So there must be something wrong, I checked all the settings from your images with mine.. and they are the same. Any idea? Really frustrating, been looking for days now (reason why my water material isn't working properly too, see other thread).
grassproblem.jpg

problem.png


Thank you,

Bert
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby thomthom » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:47 pm

Note that the material editor scene isn't well suited to preview architectural materials. When you create displacement materials you will see that the displacement amount will look different. The displacement multiplier represent inches, so calculate how big your multiplier need to be.

Then you also need to make sure that any displaced geometry is completely isolated. A geometry with a displacement material must not touch any geometry with any other material. That is very important.
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby andybot » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:00 pm

also, make sure also that any edges in your group do not have any other material applied. That's tricked me up once or twice...
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Re: [Example] V-Ray Displacement

Postby Moderat » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:11 pm

I switched the displacement multiplier up to 50, but it doesn't change a thing.
I created a grey rectangle outside my model to check if it would work there (so it isn't connected to another material).. still the same?
Can someone check my sketchup file? Really stuck here. As far as I know I'm not using any groups for the model, maybe by accidence a while ago (been working on it for quite some time now..).
http://www.mediafire.com/?pxmhwih5p0t5li3
(if you open it, does it look like a heavy file? Sketchup blocks from time to time for a minute or 2..)

Thank you!

Bert
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