Site modeling madness

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Site modeling madness

Postby mumbus » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:15 pm

Could there be anything more frustrating than trying to create a site in Sketchup? I run into problems every time and waste hours and hours trying to track down the problem and fix it. And I have been doing this and using this program for years. How does everyone else do it? If I dont have a cad file of the site I will usually use the Geo location function and just start tracing over the site imagery. Eventually I will run into an issue where lines must have gone off plane and I cant make faces. I will have to keep creating diagonal lines and make smaller faces. Sometimes when I get to the end I never find what the issue was. I just makes the last face. It is even worse when using cad linework from a site engineer. I have tried multiple plugins like Fredo edge inspector and flatten to plan. There must be a better way. I cant keep wasting time like this. Any help would be so very appreciated.
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby Box » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:21 pm

Perhaps start with a simple model showing the basics of the issues you are having.
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Last edited by Box on Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby pbacot » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:36 pm

It can be a mess sometimes. Is the inability to close faces the main problem you get? I don't see this much when working with irregular terrain since triangles tend to close OK. I have not imported a TIN directly for a long time, though I don't recall trouble with them. I usually :

1. cleanup (simplify--join etc.) contour lines in CAD and import to use Toposhaper in SU. Kudos to Fredo!
2. save an untouched copy of the original topo mesh in place on a separate layer.
3. Shape a "new work" copy of the mesh using Artisan, sandbox, vertex tools etc.
3. Avoid cutting the new mesh as possible, though sometimes you must for buildings, retaining walls etc. Sometimes I might join up flat geometry for excavation cuts to the mesh but not always, letting the mesh stay below hardscape models.
4. Create new ares of mesh (driveways etc.) with simplest geometry possible.
5. If I use drape or otherwise chop up the mesh for a road or something, I usually do this with a copy of the mesh offset from the main mesh (with side skirts), keeping the main mesh complete below. This helps later shaping of the mesh I think.
6. Don't sweat the small stuff. The degree of accuracy is low for contours, and for the model, and for what actually happens to grading in the field.

Look at ValiArchitects tools for some site shaping plugins.
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby mumbus » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:00 pm

Yes, 9 years is a long time. I am fairly proficient in the software and use it every day. I just always run into an issue with site modeling. Everytime. I usually find a work around but it is so frustrating. I have attached a site model I have been working through and a snip of a small section of sidewalk I would like to be its own face. This line work was from the site engineer and I draped it over the geo location plane. Maybe my workflow is just wrong. Research over the years has always suggested a coplaner issue but as stated, I have used plugins that are supposed to suppress all of the lines to one plane.
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mumbus 
 

Re: Site modeling madness

Postby mumbus » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:04 pm

pbacot wrote:It can be a mess sometimes. Is the inability to close faces the main problem you get? I don't see this much when working with irregular terrain since triangles tend to close OK. I have not imported a TIN directly for a long time, though I don't recall trouble with them. I usually :

1. cleanup (simplify--join etc.) contour lines in CAD and import to use Toposhaper in SU. Kudos to Fredo!
2. save an untouched copy of the original topo mesh in place on a separate layer.
3. Shape a "new work" copy of the mesh using Artisan, sandbox, vertex tools etc.
3. Avoid cutting the new mesh as possible, though sometimes you must for buildings, retaining walls etc. Sometimes I might join up flat geometry for excavation cuts to the mesh but not always, letting the mesh stay below hardscape models.
4. Create new ares of mesh (driveways etc.) with simplest geometry possible.
5. If I use drape or otherwise chop up the mesh for a road or something, I usually do this with a copy of the mesh offset from the main mesh (with side skirts), keeping the main mesh complete below. This helps later shaping of the mesh I think.
6. Don't sweat the small stuff. The degree of accuracy is low for contours, and for the model, and for what actually happens to grading in the field.

Look at ValiArchitects tools for some site shaping plugins.


It is an inability to close faces problem. I wish this was a terrain mesh issue, but this is just for flat planes. I find modeling terrain is actually easier. And yes, I love the artisan plugin. I use it all the time. Thank you for the suggestions.
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby Box » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:16 pm

Try this file.
I have removed your 'layers'. You should read up on how to use layers in sketchup.
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby mumbus » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:45 pm

Still the same issue. The layers are all from the autocad import from the site engineer.
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mumbus 
 

Re: Site modeling madness

Postby mumbus » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:51 pm

Are you suggesting that my inability to create faces is a layer management issue?
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby faust07 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:04 pm

Have often the same problem.
I use tt_flatten.rb (thomthom).
You'll get a new group and then have to revert faces, draw lines to generate faces and bring the textures back... (5 min)
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby mumbus » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:15 pm

Awesome! Thank you faust! I was using Eneroth Flatten to plane. Not sure it even did anything. :) I will grab the one that you mentioned
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby mumbus » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:43 pm

faust07 wrote:Have often the same problem.
I use tt_flatten.rb (thomthom).
You'll get a new group and then have to revert faces, draw lines to generate faces and bring the textures back... (5 min)


I have another brain bender for you. Can you think of any reason why this window wouldn't close? I alinged the axis to the surface. Most of the surfaces close. When I draw lines that intersect with each other, I can trim them like they are all on the same plane, but I cannot get this window to work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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mumbus 
 

Re: Site modeling madness

Postby Charlie__V » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:10 am

mumbus wrote:

I have another brain bender for you. Can you think of any reason why this window wouldn't close? I alinged the axis to the surface. Most of the surfaces close. When I draw lines that intersect with each other, I can trim them like they are all on the same plane, but I cannot get this window to work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Cant really say......I played with trying to close the window faces, and then decided to copy group & draw anew with guides...and it closed just fine.....one or more of the lines on your window must be askew.....sorry that really doesn't help, but using guides and editing line style to color by axis is one way of alleviating these type of problems.

C
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby faust07 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:27 am

After grouping, rotating I used the same plugin - then reverse faces, transfer textures, move back and turn, explode..
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby faust07 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:51 am

The easiest drawing exercise imaginable in SketchUp obviously doesn't work anymore since some versions (as I see, fortunately not only for me) - dividing flat and textured surfaces with drawn straight lines.
Another problem when drawing lines on textured surfaces is that SketchUp often creates multiple coplanar faces and also deletes adjacent textures. It's quite a fiddle editing this tangle. Usually it works better not to draw the lines, but to copy adjacent longer lines to the desired place and to delete protruding parts.
Plugins such as 2D Tools (TIG), Edge Tools (Thomthom) or Fredo Tools (Fredo6) are also helpful when drawing or editing lines on flat surfaces.
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby oceanembers » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:33 pm

My process for terrain:
1) Create base/existing from contours with Toposhaper
2) Create new forms
3) Intersect and delete excess

Honestly the best thing is just to keep it simple. Hell, if it's just a flat slope or something to that effect, you needn't even bother with toposhaper.
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Re: Site modeling madness

Postby mumbus » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:27 pm

Thank you all for the input. I means a lot just to know that I am not the only one experiencing the issues. I thought I was going crazy. I dont remember having these same problems years ago. Thanks again!
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