mini-challenge

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mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:04 am

.



draw the pink board



mini.jpg



.
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby brookefox » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:34 am

Gimme a model?
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:39 am

brookefox wrote:Gimme a model?

you can make up your own dimensions as they're not (entirely) important.. (it's mainly about getting the parallel lines of the pink board in there like that)

[EDIT] oh wait, the width_of_ board dimension is critical but you can make that dimension up if you want.. you just have to choose what it is first then draw it..

but here's a starting model anyway..


mini__.skp
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Last edited by jeff hammond on Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby brookefox » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:51 am

Perhaps I was joking, perhaps not, but what have I got to lose. I'm gettin' out my pen and paper right now.

Something smells fishy around here.
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:03 am

brookefox wrote:Perhaps I was joking, perhaps not, but what have I got to lose. I'm gettin' out my pen and paper right now.

Something smells fishy around here.


it seems simple but it's actually hard to pull off in sketchup.

just throwing it out there to see if someone comes up with something more slick than how I've been doing it.

(edit-) as in, my current method isn't very slick.
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby ninopiamonte » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:44 am

Can you give something more details about this challenge?
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:15 am

ninopiamonte wrote:Can you give something more details about this challenge?


you mean like prizes and stuff?


this is a fairly common situation in framing when an X-brace is required.. often, you're able to just trace them onsite but other times you can't (other walls in the way etc..).. either way, it's nice if you just have the right dimensions in the first place..

another example of the same problem.. (2x4 wall frames connected by a brace)


mini2.jpg



so the the challenge is for you to show your technique (probably via screenshots, .skp, or video) showing the best way you can come up with to draw the brace board in order to obtain proper dimensions for it.


[and i'll act as the judge :lol: ]
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby thomthom » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:45 am

Still not getting it... too early in the morning - haven't had my tea yet. :oops:
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby pilou » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:55 am

My little try :)

Chall.jpg
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:07 am

Pilou wrote:My little try :)

Chall.jpg


in step 2, how do you know where to draw the line ? (at which height ?)

like i said earlier, your board has to be a predetermined width…
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby pilou » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:11 am

It was made step 3 ;)

But if you want better :)

Chall.jpg
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby pbacot » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:22 am

I just draw a 2x4 or whatever and rotate it then cut with two uprights...? I did that today in a trellis design.
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:31 am

Pilou wrote:It was made step 3 ;)



thisway.jpg


[ie--- the board is a set thickness.. it will always be the same.. the part you're measuring will constantly change depending on the gap and height (angle)..]
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:33 am

pbacot wrote:I just draw a 2x4 and rotate it then cut with two uprights...?


doesn't work… (unless you're just sorta eyeing it into place.. but this isn't horseshoes ;) )

that's why this is tough
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby pilou » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:35 am

It's implicit at my new version above
You have caltulated before the good rectangle for have the good result ;)
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby thomthom » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:43 am

Does it has to be drawn correct in the first place?
I was thinking, drawing the profile of the board in the correct size, extrude, rotate it, taper off the ends. - too many steps?
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:48 am

Pilou wrote:It's implicit at my new version above
You have caltulated before the good rectangle for have the good result ;)


ok.. i'll try to switch up the way i'm presenting the problem..


draw this:

(notice which way the 5 units are being measured.. if i measure 5 in the place you're suggesting, my board will no longer have a width of 5.. it will be too skinny)
mini3.jpg
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby thomthom » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:49 am

This is an elaborate plugin request - right?
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:51 am

thomthom wrote:Does it has to be drawn correct in the first place?
I was thinking, drawing the profile of the board in the correct size, extrude, rotate it, taper off the ends. - too many steps?


take as many steps as needed.. but for you, once you recognize the issue, you'll probably immediate think ruby as a means of solving it.. the way i do it is with a dynamic component.. there's a brute force method to accomplish it within sketchup itself but i'm wondering if i happen to be missing a method.. no solutions given so far will accomplish it..


[EDIT.. haha.. re:your post while i was typing this one :D ]
but no.. i didn't set out for it to be.. it's a pretty cool little challenge because of how simple it seems.. hopefully a plugin doesn't jump in too soon and spoil all the fun ;)
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby pbacot » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:54 am

Well if you had a true arc or circle you could find your exact intersection points. But there are no true circles in SU.
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:58 am

pbacot wrote:Well if you had a true arc or circle you could find your exact intersection points. But there are no true circles in SU.


right, that's the brute force method i mentioned above.. make a little arc with a thousand segments and it will work..
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby thomthom » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:00 am

Jeff Hammond wrote:
pbacot wrote:Well if you had a true arc or circle you could find your exact intersection points. But there are no true circles in SU.


right, that's the brute force method i mentioned above.. make a little arc with a thousand segments and it will work..

That sounds dangerous - most likely you'll get some minor accuracy issue somewhere ~0.00001 of whatever - something that eventually cascades into a nightmare! (thinking of all them imported AutoCAD plans I've had... x_X )
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:11 am

thomthom wrote:
Jeff Hammond wrote:
pbacot wrote:Well if you had a true arc or circle you could find your exact intersection points. But there are no true circles in SU.


right, that's the brute force method i mentioned above.. make a little arc with a thousand segments and it will work..

That sounds dangerous - most likely you'll get some minor accuracy issue somewhere ~0.00001 of whatever - something that eventually cascades into a nightmare! (thinking of all them imported AutoCAD plans I've had... x_X )


yes.. that can happen and why i eventually went with a dynamic component instead (maths)

for getting an accurate enough dimension for a framer to cut.. it's ok.. but to have something like that in a drawing where you may be inferencing etc for future parts of the drawing.. i agree, it's a no-no.. you can throw off everything else down the line..
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby pbacot » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:22 am

From tip to tip you have length A-C the hypotenuse on the board. You know the width of the board B-C so you can find A-B. So when you have a board A-B long exactly you can rotate it with snaps then trim it, but is the rotate operation inaccurate?
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby jeff hammond » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:28 am

pbacot wrote:From tip to tip you have length A-C the hypotenuse on the board. You know the width of the board B-C so you can find A-B. So when you have a board A-B long exactly you can rotate it with snaps then trim it, but is the rotate operation inaccurate?


rotate is accurate.. you just need something to snap to which is hard to get in this case..

but what you're saying.. can you do that geometrically (as in, can you do it using only sketchup tools) or would you need a calculator?
(currently, the only way i've been able to do it is with a calculator (well, i use the DC dialog for the calculator that can then adjust the position of lines))
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby thomthom » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:52 am

Cursed this challenge! Now it really bothers me that I cannot find an easy way for this in SU.
I'm not even quite sure how to calculate the angel... ?
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby Gaieus » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:56 am

Yes, it's a pity that true geometry is impossible in SU and one always needs to rely on workarounds. In this "rotation" workaround you still get a 0.01 cm (0.1 mm) inaccuracy which is obviously okay for constructing but annoying to know there is in your model since you never know when exactly you'd need that accuracy for inferencing.

I have drawn two guides at 5 (well I used cms but who cares) apart and then tried to rotate them but as you can see, although I do get the endpoint inferencing, SU actually does not know what it is inferring there along the guide.
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby pilou » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:59 am

Like in reality what more simple without any Plugin ? :mrgreen:
The big one is of course any what you want!
Groups are any size!
general.jpg
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby thomthom » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:01 am

Align.png
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Re: mini-challenge

Postby pilou » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:03 am

How ?

By the simple use of the Rotate tool !!! :enlight:
And that will be the same for the second rotation ;)
Just put the Rotation tool on the other group's axe and rotate the view for snap on the good point! ;)
So you can now draw the 2 little segments for the Push cut! :fro:

Any calculate was tourmented during the movie! :mrgreen:


How.jpg


rotate1.jpg
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Last edited by pilou on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:37 am, edited 8 times in total.
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