Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

General discussion related to LayOut

Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby daiku » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:13 pm

bmike wrote:An update on the Round Barn project.


Incredible! Remarkable detail.
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby sonder » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:34 pm

Agreed - beautiful work as always!
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby goatboy » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:33 pm

Sonder & Bmike confirm what I have suspected since I discovered SU about 5 years ago...it's way better than anything else cad/3d like.

Layout is great for getting the SU model into formats that others can access...my hope is that SKP format becomes as popular as PDF.

I think the real key is to quit thinking about construction documents in the same-old 2d way.

While I don't do the same sort of architecture as Sonder and Bmike, I have used SU for everything from idea sketches, home remodel and additions to retail stores and multiple acre commercial site design. My peers are always trying to convert a SU model to something else: ACAD, 3dCivil, GIS, Inventor, Microstation...I always ask why: The model has it all in it and that was how I started the design in the first place.

I think of SU like Legos or Blocks or even additive/subtractive 'magic' clay with a cute girl to give it scale. I hardly even 'sketch' now, and I taught perspective Drawing in Architecture School!

I think there are too many who are in 'love' with CD's to see what is really happening: we are trying to convey a model solution to a fabricator in the field...if they can visualize it too, maybe we don't need so much annotation...you know: a picture says a thousands words (and probably as many dimensions).

Architects are romantically associated with the 'sketch' on the napkin. IF WE COULD "SKETCH" ON OUR ANDROID TABLET OR PHONE the napkin would now be an obstacle to moving forward with collaboration of an idea.
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby seasdes » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:11 am

I have tried using Layout for construction docs. All went well until I tried to draw sectional views through a house. The problem I found was that Layout was too slow when trying to offset lines and draw lines using polar coordinates (ie distance and angle method of drawing lines).
What do other Layout users do in this situation?
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby sonder » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:08 pm

seasdes wrote:I have tried using Layout for construction docs. All went well until I tried to draw sectional views through a house. The problem I found was that Layout was too slow when trying to offset lines and draw lines using polar coordinates (ie distance and angle method of drawing lines).
What do other Layout users do in this situation?


In Sketchup, when you cut the section, create a group from slice. This creates matching line work for the section cut. You can then, either:

1. save as a view, overlay another su reference in layout with this view and vector render it or
2. copy the line work from sketchup and paste into layout, vector render and overlay.

Either works well and really fast. Layout vector renders isolated line work almost instantly. It slows down when you try to vector render an entire model.
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby bmike » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:18 pm

Thats a cool idea Sonder.

I use TIGs 'Section Cut Face' plugin.

And I talk about my method here, repeated in case you didn't read the whole thread:
(still trying to find time to do a part 2)

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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby bmike » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:21 pm

Sonder -

I've noticed my PDF sizes creeping way up whenever I include Raster or Hybrid renders.
Have you noticed this as well?
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby seasdes » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:34 pm

Thanks Sonder and Bmike. So it is my understanding that Any building component that I want displayed in the section view should be modelled in Sketchup rather than trying to draw it in Layout. Also linework in layout should be limited to annotation type lines. Is this correct?
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby bmike » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:08 am

seasdes wrote:Thanks Sonder and Bmike. So it is my understanding that Any building component that I want displayed in the section view should be modelled in Sketchup rather than trying to draw it in Layout. Also linework in layout should be limited to annotation type lines. Is this correct?



I think it's just easier to draw it in SketchUp and detail in LayOut, but I have used methods similar to Sonders where I explode geometry or trace over geometry to get the drawing and detail I need.

But the short answer, for me is, draw it once, and cut it up and scene it out.
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby sonder » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:36 am

Great video Mike! We have very similar workflow. Anything that has to do with the design is in SU. All notation, dimensions and drafting elements like grids or symbols are in Layout. The only difference is I pull the section cut linework such as the post, into Layout to vector render it over the raster render.

And yes the PDF files get pretty large. I have one set of CD's that is 425Mb!
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby utiler » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:02 am

Gee Nick, there must be something you can do about that!!! How do you transfer files to sub- consultants electronically? :?
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby sonder » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:15 pm

utiler wrote:Gee Nick, there must be something you can do about that!!! How do you transfer files to sub- consultants electronically? :?


I lower the PDF file size through acrobat if need be. Typically I just use Dropbox so the best quality goes through. The 400+mb files are out to bid to 4 contractors and no one has complained. All contractors only received the download link. The print quality at that size is outstanding.
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby utiler » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:13 pm

I bet it is!!!! :thumb:
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby whitelock » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:59 pm

bmike wrote:Another small project for a workshop.









On deck are 2 small buildings - I'm taking the entire process through SU and LO, as well as another small timber frame workshop project (similar in scope to these drawings).

Here's hoping Trimble sees the value in LayOut and ups the development of it. It is my go to tool now for taking 3d to 2d.


Hi, Beautiful detail sheets can you tell me what settings you use for your styles?
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby dale » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:17 pm

utiler wrote:Gee Nick, there must be something you can do about that!!! How do you transfer files to sub- consultants electronically? :?

This is an excellent question. Our electrical and mechanical engineers all request dxf/dwg drawings as they take our base drawings and build theirs on that.
Can you export layout in dxf/dwg?
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby beginner » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:31 pm

Yes you can export in DWG or DXF (AC12 to AC2010)
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47135&p
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby dale » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:34 am

Thanks beginner. I'm just starting to consider Layout for final working drawings, but having a proper set of dxf/dwg drawings for other consultants is a must.
Doesn't sound flawless, so I might have to take certain drawings (ie floorplans, reflected ceiling plans) from SketchUp into one of my Cad programs first on order to accomplish this. Too bad.
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby beginner » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:48 am

Hi Dale,
Doesn't sound flawless, so I might have to take certain drawings (ie floorplans, reflected ceiling plans) from SketchUp into one of my Cad programs first on order to accomplish this. Too bad.

Have a look this...
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=47488
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby sonder » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:18 pm

dale wrote:
utiler wrote:Gee Nick, there must be something you can do about that!!! How do you transfer files to sub- consultants electronically? :?

This is an excellent question. Our electrical and mechanical engineers all request dxf/dwg drawings as they take our base drawings and build theirs on that.
Can you export layout in dxf/dwg?


Yes you can and in either model or paper space. What I do for my consultants and my floor plans is create a group from slice in the section tool. This accurately isolates simply line work of a plan or section. Then export that group only as a dwg file. They then have a simple background without all the crap that they usually have to erase. So far my structural engineers and surveyors have commented on how my drawings are the easiest to deal with. Pretty funny considering I don't even open ACAD to provide them.
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby dale » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:45 pm

Thanks Sonder. That will tilt me over the edge to Layout.
I'm sure there will be lots of questions ahead.

Dale
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby bmike » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:00 pm

another recent project:













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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby porch_unplugged » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:58 pm

bmike wrote:another recent project:


very nice. did you do your foundation details as 2D's in layout?
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby bmike » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:01 pm

porch_unplugged wrote:
bmike wrote:another recent project:


very nice. did you do your foundation details as 2D's in layout?



the foundation details are 'typical' and were pasted in as a PDF from my engineer.
if you look at the 'Round Barn' project I modeled the foundation details in SketchUp, then detailed in LayOut.
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby ccaponigro » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:49 pm

Thought I would jump in here. I'm pretty new to sketchup but have 30 years of acad disappointment under my belt. Right now I use Architectural Desktop for plans and schedules and creating a model from them for all my elevations and layout to present them. I wanted them to look like b/w CD's so I saved the model and changed all the textures to have no color. I would love to do everything in layout but it is hard to give up all the bim and attribute extraction. This is a real project with real clients so it was a leap of faith since I had never used sketchup for a real project before this. We have a permit and it's under construction. The clients love being able to see the model. Constructive criticisum welcome.
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby mwm5053 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:33 pm

Very impresive :thumb:
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby pbacot » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:21 pm

ccaponigro wrote:Thought I would jump in here. I'm pretty new to sketchup but have 30 years of acad disappointment under my belt. Right now I use Architectural Desktop for plans and schedules and creating a model from them for all my elevations and layout to present them. I wanted them to look like b/w CD's so I saved the model and changed all the textures to have no color.

Really nice work! Thanks for posting and the information.
A trick I have used in LO to hide the terrain and create a ground line: trace along the ground line in LO, making a polygon- complete the polygon, below, to mask the terrain with fill, make a duplicate and trim this to use as a thick ground line (without fill)
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby ccaponigro » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:33 pm

pbacot wrote:
ccaponigro wrote:Thought I would jump in here. I'm pretty new to sketchup but have 30 years of acad disappointment under my belt. Right now I use Architectural Desktop for plans and schedules and creating a model from them for all my elevations and layout to present them. I wanted them to look like b/w CD's so I saved the model and changed all the textures to have no color.

Really nice work! Thanks for posting and the information.
A trick I have used in LO to hide the terrain and create a ground line: trace along the ground line in LO, making a polygon- complete the polygon, below, to mask the terrain with fill, make a duplicate and trim this to use as a thick ground line (without fill)


Thanks! I like that idea and it sure wouldn't hurt to get that terrain turned off.
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby pbacot » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:02 am

Yes, actually don't need the terrain layer to be on, but you may want something to draw the ground line to, at least at first.
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby njh » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:04 pm

Hi folks

The plan shown by Sonder looks fantastic! I've tried to attach the one I'm talking about.

I'm just picking up Sketchup and Layout again after a lengthy absence and I'm hoping to adopt it as my full time design package rather than Vectorworks so I have a query about the electrical layout, fans etc on the drawing- are they part of the sketchup model or drawn "on top" of the view in layout?

Apologies if this is explained in the thread somewhere and I've not noticed it.

Neil


Screen grab.pdf
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Re: Construction & Working Drawings - Discussion

Postby ArCAD-UK » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:29 pm

I take the line SU is for the 3D modelling bit and LO is for the 2D graphics and notes. Have you looked at the scrapbook facility? That is where you would start to save time if you have an office standard.
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