General discussion related to SketchUp. No off topic threads please.
I wasn't thinking of forum ... but that's me personally. I spend all too much time here already. Don't have time for another.
i would bet money on it continuing with the current numbering system..
yeah, see, regarding the things i've said in this thread... i think have this bad habit of exaggerating things in order to make a point.. if i'm speaking to someone in person and do that, it works..
i'm not so sure if it works out so well in print..
I don't see them "buying out" SketchUcation -- there are too many practical roadblocks for that to occur.
Financial support (in the form of advertising) would certainly be an option and Trimble has a large array of products that could be advertised here to spread the word on its other offerings. This serves two purposes:
1) Educates the users on what other Trimble products might benefit them -- this can be a good way of taking advantage of the "purchase" of the SketchUp user base... we are much more interested to learn more about Trimble products now.
2) Shows they are interested in us as existing customers and community.
This is something that can and should be done ASAP.
I create video tutorial series about several 2D & 3D graphics programs.
The way I see it, if it wasn't for this forum Sketchup wouldn't have survived and/or thrived. I couldn't imagine using Sketchup in its native vanilla form without all the amazing techniques, plugins and styles posted here. I see the transfer to Trimble as a possibility for new life for Sketchup as everyone well knows that Google seems to have let the project get stagnant on their end. With Trimble coming on board perhaps they will bleed new light into the project and use the undeniable resources here to update Sketchup to the software it really should be.
I mean, if Google hasn't alienated Sketchup users by lack of interest in moving it forward, Trimble won't be able to either.
I would just like to thank each and every contributor to this forum, be it by Plugin, Texture, Technique, Model or just a kind word of encouragement, you have all made this the true SketchUp forum, no matter whose ownership title is on the box.
I could NOT disagree with any word you said.
My real concern with a takeover by anybody, not just Trimble, whom I know nothing about, is from a business point of view. Most of that was mentioned in my previous post, but one aspect (unmentioned) needs to be highlighted.
Google was flu$h enough that it didn't really matter if SU made or lost $$$. I think they kept it going for the technology aspect, not the bottom line, else they would not have been so altruistic with a near fully functional free version, and very few paid options offered.
Trimble, I would assume, is a "for profit" company dealing in like technology. SU is probably a good fit to their product line, and SU's technology potential is most likely the main reason it bought it from Google. Not to kill it per-se.
But, as a for-profit company it has to justify the acquisition and maintenance cost to the bottom line in a reasonable time. If in fact the improvements to their core products from SU technology does in fact pay those costs down, then we have nothing to fear, as there will be no real need to kill SU, Free or Pro.
My biggest fear is that today, too many MBA's are calling the shots, and they have the training and dedication to ONLY improve the corporate bottom line. So if SU as a standalone product, does not pay for itself, there will be no compunction on their part to save it, and bye-bye SU .
But the technology will live on within Trimbles core products, and assuming any one of them can replace SU in function, then many of us may convert, if it isn't priced beyond reasonable.
I, for one, have been looking covetously at Solid Works, but at $3,500 a seat, plus add-on$$, it is totally unaffordable for what I do. So, I may probably stay with SU-8 (or 9) forever, much like I keep Wordperfect 8 as my prime word-processor.
I truly look forward to some senior Trimble exec to come forward here and explain the rational for acquiring SU and what plans they have for its future.
I totally agree Rob.
SCF is the conduit for these amazing and generous guys to share their talents and hard work, without these additions Sketchup would be just another 3D app. I hope Trimble realizes what they have with SCF.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
I just Googled "Trimble" and read this following post. Interesting to say the least, and maybe, just maybe a ray of hope for the future of SU.
I am sure they do or will be made aware of it very soon especially with John B. and others on the SU team being involved here.
I anticipate good times ahead.
I don't know what to make of this... I just noticed TIG's thread here and had to look up what the "changes" were...
Wasn't that a Star Trek episode? "The trouble with Trimbles"? (I know... Tribbles)
I'm by no mean in any loop (except maybe the occasional mobius time loop), but I never heard of them.
I checked out their website and it didn't reassure me any... maybe it is the globe logo... if science fiction has taught me anything, it is- companies with globe logos tend to create homicidal robots that run amok in the near future, or they "accidentally" awaken equally homicidal aliens that have been buried in Antarctica for millennia...
I'm probably the only one worried about that part though...
I hate change.
Not that I think change is bad... it is just that for the most part humans have an inherent way of taking something good or something that works and "reimagining" it or trying to fix, as the saying goes "what aint broke"...
Oh well... just shocked and worried... (horrible visions of TruSpace and Microsoft, ya know)...
I'm not even sure if this is relevant to the OP, but as far as I'm concerned these forums... SketchUcation... IS SketchUp's forums.
I don't know how I found this place, but back a few years ago (my joined date is wrong) when I first came here I just assumed this was Google's SketchUp forum... it took about a year to realize this place is independent of Google (I'm not too bright, what can I say).
SketchUcation is great... an amazing mix of professional, semi professional, and newbies... I have learned so much from this place...
I can't think of where to go from there though... anything more might sound mushy... or crazy, but I have huge gratitude and admiration for the creators,staff, mods, crew and all the helpful generous forumites out there...
I suppose, obviously if Tribble runs SketchUp into the ground that would spell an eventual end to this place... but can they cause change here? They can't stop the ruby coders from making scripts... they can't remove posts or effect TOS here? Could they?
The OP really worries me... maybe because TIG wrote it and he is pretty sane... TIG sounds worried... that worries me...
I'm not even sure what my point is anymore...
If anyone from Trimble happens to read this post...
Please do your best to relate this to whomever (or whatever... see,I've got an open mind) makes the decisions regarding SketchUp...
Please treat SketchUp well... it may just be another acquisition to you, just some software platform, but to many, many people in the world it is far more... It is a tool like no other, that allows people... many of whom do not have the opportunity, time or money to learn other more complicated and prohibitively expensive software, to immediately begin to visualize their dreams, fluidly and intuitively.
SketchUp is more than just a tool... it enables the imagination and inspires the mind to follow the better part of the human spirit and create.
Please treat SketchUp well... you never know what great idea it will help take form or what young child it will inspire to to become more then their means allow.
This is more than software... it is something precious, with great potential... you are it's caretakers now.
That and try not to unleash any homicidal aliens or robots in the near future... if thats okay... probably just me worrying about that though...
I think we should sum up what this forum mean to SketchUp in a few minutes. To make sure Trimble people informed about the value. How about forum showreel?
To me, just one-two aspects is crazy enough.
A high speed showreel of ruby plugin magics in actions and images/videos produced from disciplines can make the whole world jaw drop, and anyone would realized the value of those plugin created by users.
http://designreform.net/2009/09/sketchu ... -and-revit
Also, I just realized I never seen any Official SketchUp showreel that really show what it can really do!!!
"What do we want?...Time travel... When do we want it?... Irrelevant"
Thanks to Funny Pics
This Forum is just golden.
A special place and a statement of just how valuable and sacred free discourse and the sharing of ideas are.
Friedrich von Hayek noted in the "Road to Serfdom"
"The more security you get the less freedom you will have".
Just keep Trimble out of this and let them do their own thing.
The foolishness of looking to them for a few pennies is obvious.
When the camel's nose is in the tent the camel is in the tent.
Well meaning intrusion will be the ultimate result.
My heartfelt thanks and respect to all herein for all that is so freely given.
To all the above comments about the value of this forum.
That being said, however, it's a little unrealistic to imagine that a multi-billion dollar outfit is going to leave the customer interface for what might well prove to be the common factor that links all the disperate parts of its portfolio together, in the hands of a bunch of outsiders...however well-intentioned they are...and however passionate about the software.
Under Google's stewardship it was a no-brainer; they didn't even try. Googleplex could have ported a great website that was as user-friendly as SU itself onto a Google server, but insisted that it be crammed into the faceless and utterly unappealing format of the Google Help system. That's why we are all here...in what is, in effect, a carbon copy of the old @Last forums...albeit a little more evolved since then.
I guess what I'm saying is that invaluable though this place is, I wouldn't find it at all surprising if business imperatives dictate that a SketchUp user forum is set up on the Trimble site...and what's more (if Trimble are serious about the community aspect of SU and genuinely wish to foster that) that very real efforts are made to make that a vibrant, resource-rich community too.
Even more than that; if SU users want to have any influence on Trimble's business strategy (which will necessarily affect SU itself) then they are going to have to make contributions over there as well. John and the rest of the team may well make timely, if not frequent, visits here, but I don't think Trimble as a whole would be under any obligation to take seriously any considerations regarding their software that aren't expressed in their own forum set up for precisely that purpose.
This is a difficult balancing act. It's impossible to overstate the value of Sketchucation...all the brightest and best of the coders are signed up here, most if not all of the beta team is here...many of them making the greatest contributions. Even the SU team itself finds it a more valuable sounding-box than their own forums. Not bad for a site which, at the time of the Google acquisition, was little more than Coen's personal blog.
Nevertheless, it never pays to shy away from realistic scenarios. Only by contemplating them in advance are you in a position to best deal with them if and when they finally land on your doorstep.
Current forum membership: 119,200. Topics: over 38,000. Comments: over 383,000. If it is going away, it will be like a glacier going away. But I will stay as long as I am able.
I take the slow, deliberate approach in my aimless wandering.
IDK Alan. You and I may live in a rarefied world. Those companies that have useful forums are the software companies for rendering etc. Companies probably run by geeks/artists. MOST companies, I bet, have message boards because someone said they should and probably look at them more with apprehension than a way to get ideas.
EG Autodesk with SketchBook gives very nice Geek demos and blogs, but I can't make sense of their site. Sure you might find your way to some message board answers but it is NOT a holistic experience.
There's "message boards" and "forums". SUcation is an example of mixing people from many backgrounds for a fertile exchange of ideas. The way of learning is closer to the apprentice shop than you might find in many design offices today. A master or helpful Hannah is always working at a desk(top) nearby it seems.
The media is the message--the simple and transparent format is as key as the hands-on persona of the moderation to make this "place" work. The team here is irreplaceable. (Kudos--appreciation--regards ETC.) Peter
Agreed, Peter; but I'm not saying that Sketchucation is going away...just that in all probability it might soon have a competing/complementary space over at Trimble. True, it could be something as basic as a message board or even FAQs, but as Trimble have admitted that they 'get it' regarding SU's fiercely committed army of fans...and as the SU team will presumably have a fair degree of input as to what finally materialises over there, it would be almost worse than nothing to host some bland, meaningless board.
It doesn't have to be an either/or. Many experienced users continued to give plenty of advice over on the Google forum while still doing a great job here. I must be bad at multi-tasking, 'cos i can only handle one forum at a time...at least in any really committed way. It took me several months to migrate over here after initially trying to make a go of it at Google.
Yes, the statistics are impressive, Tim...and I might be tempted to say that they contain all the people that really matter. However, you can't get away from the fact that very few of those 120,000 actually contribute very much. A staggering 1 post in every 15 is Csaba's...10x as many as me; and I'm reasonably prolific.
Yet even if all 120,000 were to contribute something...that still only represents a paltry 4% of the total user base; and I'm pretty sure that Trimble...one way or another...would at least like to pretend that it represented all of them.
Yea - gotto do something about all that spam...
And if you have ever seen him type/slam you would understand that he has gone through many keyboards to get here
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
He's a loud-typer, is he? Nearly as bad as loud-talkers. There are some at the office that sound like machineguns when they type on the keyboard.
You're almost as bad Thom...well half as bad.
At least Pete and Eric are down in the 1:50 region.
Can I put a value on Sketucation?? You bet.
I may not have a high volume of posts, but I do have a high volume of reading posts.
Virtually all the pluggins I have installed, or are pending installation, have emanated from my asking (or somebody else asking) here in SCF how to solve a problem, and 90% of the answers were to get a pluggin that has already solved that problem.
I would hazard to guess that SU would not be anywhere as useful to ANYBODY without this forum.
SU and SCF are integral in my opinion.
The RUBY API makes that possible. Second to SU itself, that has been Googles best idea yet. Funny how Goggle itself makes almost zero use of it.
The RUBY Wizards among us are the real SU developers, beyond the core SU app.
I considered this place are mostly used by best SketchUp users.
A lot many may find they don't want to say much because when they want answers, they found it almost the time already.
At least I feel I don't know much, and feel I'm not good enough when look at those expert answers and resources
It's funny SketchUp have the same problem as many Open-source project contributions.
Those few user percents contributed most, the 'longtail' also applied here.
And there're a few chinese site that have very nice galleries, but it's quite pity that language is barrier.
I think the new SketchUp site should aim to make the other 96 percents get involved in some way. And make life easier for the 4 percents that are here/ Not aim competing with this forum, because I think no one can . Aiming to collected the scattered SketchUp infos from around the world and make it easy to see the big pictures and updates is nice, there're so many resources you have to dig into these day. SketchUp planet would be very nice
There're many local websites, forum, facebook, twitter and blogs that need loves. Trimble should make them able to work together, it would be synergy on the world scale we should take advantage.
He,he the time we talk about Trimble is worth every penny they paid. That's marketing! Who was Trimble before Sketchup?
I suspect that Trimble paid a tidy sum for SketchUp. Google may have had no more use for it, but I'm sure they were well aware of its value in the broader market. That's why it's the only asset they have ever sold, rather than simply killing-off.
I agree 100% on both points.
"If you don't plan ahead you'll be at the mercy of those that do" - Ashleigh Brilliant
"Bad is not good until worse happens" - Bob James
The Ruby API was added in version 4 - before Google acquired SketchUp...
I dont understand the licensing or legality side but SKETCHUP works as well as it does free or professional because of the great work you plugin artists do. Sketchup will continue to live and grow as long as a forum like this exists, a free version 8.xxx exists and great programmers continue to support it. Having said that, lets hope Trimble make it even better.
nO fiKst ideas
THat the official SU forum be here at SketchUcation or at the Trimble site do not worry me a bit.
I regularly visit SketchUcation and the SketchUp Help Group at Google and I was also visiting the Forum at Abvent's site for a while but it has so little activity that I have neglected it since more than a year or two.
IMHO the official site shall be, and I think it is logical, at Trimble, like now it is at Google.
This written, I also think that these companies, Google and Trimble offer so many softwares that they cannot focus enough on any one of them to offer an excellent forum with all the required functionnalites like adding files to post, fancy formatting, using icons, emoticons, etc.
On the other hand, SketchUcation only focus is SketchUp. We have proven that it works since we have many more members than the Google Help group. We have a very complete depository of plugins and also offer quite a lot more in the form of tutorial, mini publications, SketchUp Books, CatchUp, etc.
This is normal since a lot of contributors here do that for free since they have a passion while programmers at Google or Trimble have a job that is not necessarily passionate.
My idea is that if Trimble open a forum dedicated to SketchUp, I only hope it is not too boring and will offer the tools that we take from granted here and that were difficult to get at Google like, among a few, the capability to add files to our posts.
Then, I will frequent it as well as SketchUcation, just to keep contact with as many users and colleagues helpers and to help as many beginners as I can, like I do now.
Jean (Johnny) Lemire from Richelieu, Quebec, Canada.