Forums' Future ?

[TIG]

With these recently announced changes to Sketchup I am concerned as to what will happen to the old Google forums ? [which, of course, we all know were never as good as SCF]
If they are to be recast and/or re-branded, then where does this leave all of use at the SketchUcation Forums ?

I would think that a sizable majority of active Sketchup enthusiasts regularly use SCF.
It has always been independent and it has never been 'supported' by Google.
It was through the efforts of Mike and few other dedicated heroes that SCF grew from the ashes, after Google decided to close the old @Last-forums and replace them with a pale shadow, under their own banner.
Our SCF IS supported by many of us, who give our time, expertise and goodwill freely... which is something that I often think has never been sufficiently recognized by Google and so it might still go unrecognized by the new 'powers that be'. We do it because we love Sketchup, and of course we love SCF...

Sketchup is more that some 'software' - it IS a thriving community of users.
The community's hub already exists at SCF, so I hope that this will be recognized in any future developments - there is no need to reinvent the wheel...

This personal rant is in the nature of an open-letter to all SCF members and the 'owners' of Sketchup*** - where do you think the forums - that's both SCF and the other 'official' ones - should [or could] be heading


***They are not the 'owners' - just the 'guardians' of our aspirations...

[pbacot]

This is going just fine here. No need for change, whether the owners are interested or not. Peter

[jason_maranto]

The fact the John spoke to Mike directly (on the phone) about this, almost as soon as it went public, speaks volumes to me about SketchUcations value to the dev team... I would assume that there will be nothing done to endanger this place, and there may even be some semi-official aspect going forward.

Best,
Jason.

[ArCAD-UK]

This is a great forum. It would be a shame if it died or became subject to external "influence". At least being independent we can say what we think without fear of censorship and hopefully the new "owners" appreciate the positive contributions on this forum that help make SU so popular and guidance provided to the developers through the wishlists etc.

I personally felt quite isolated by the Google forums and it was a great relief to discover this place.

[Alan Fraser]

Yes, this place needs to just carry on as usual. I mean, what if the blushing bride decides to get another divorce some time in the future?

[solo]

I agree, we should stay independent and a voice of the users and not the owners. We can be objective without restriction. Trimble can pay for advertising which will help fund this forum.

[IdahoJ]

"Trimble can pay for advertising which will help fund this forum."

Excellent idea!

[jbacus]

I agree, we should stay independent and a voice of the users and not the owners. We can be objective without restriction. Trimble can pay for advertising which will help fund this forum.

Would this forum still be considered independent if we were funding it?


john
.

[Phil Rader, AIA]

I agree! I never made the switch to the Google groups. SCF is my home away from home. I come here for support from the people I know and respect who are as addicted to SU as I am.

Long Live SCF....Hurah!

[IdahoJ]

Would this forum still be considered independent if we were funding it?

Probably not. But a few click through Trimble banner ads wouldn't hurt any ...

[solo]

I agree, we should stay independent and a voice of the users and not the owners. We can be objective without restriction. Trimble can pay for advertising which will help fund this forum.

Would this forum still be considered independent if we were funding it?


john
.

Not funding it, like all other advertisers, Trimble does not get a free ride, no representation without taxation.

But who am I to even talk, I'm just a moderator that gets to ban spammers, split topics, moderate (but there I'm just as bad as I go off on a tangent in the corner bar myself)

[EarthMover]

Indeed. This forum is far more than just a "forum". It is a hub. It's a repository of supercharged techniques, upgrades and modifications to take sketchup from a basic, border line mediocre tool and turn it into a tailor made heavyweight contender. So much so that Sketchup users can be divided into two groups, those who SCF and those who don't. This forum is home to free thinkers, artists and altruists. A place where national borders melt away and common ground is found in the shared desired to be creative. I hope this place stays exactly as it is. Independent and largely uncensored.

[JClements]

This forum, for me, is more than a community it is like a "community college". A place to learn and discuss and give support to those needing it and to those who provide it.

[JClements]

To John Baccus:

Not fund but willing donate $ and knowledge and buy advertising as some members here do:

Mike and his associates can make the decisions to accept donations which they feel would jeopardize independence.

[Jeff Hammond]

I've been on some other software forum where the mere mention of a competitor product had people up in arms.

as in, if I said something like "modo can do this faster" on scf (if scf were similar to the other forums) then everybody would jump on my case and possibly delete my comment.

as long as it doesn't go to that extreme then I think it would be great to have you all funding it.

expanding a little more on what i said above…

scf, as it is now, is generally an open forum.. you can pretty much talk about anything you like which makes it a place where members are more likely to openly and freely share information..

if the ax dropped and we're only supposed to talk about sketchup and/or other trimble products then all of a sudden, the major contributors become, first&foremost, trimble's advertisers (unpaid ones at that)..

in that regard, the whole thing takes on too much of a corporate vibe and less of a forum and/or community.. I think you may alienate many of the top posters or definitely put a damper on what they're willing to contribute..

(but even if that is the direction these forums go in and you do in fact lose some current members, i'm sure others will come in to fill the void so… whatever i guess..)

[Jeff Hammond]

oh.. and we should also still be able to talk about money,politics, religion and other thing we don't know much about yet have strong opinions towards.. when we get bored.

[chedda]

This forum and it's contributors really help the sketchup experience it cannot be over emphasized. I am staying put regardless, together we are an organized force to be reckoned with ! Trimble be careful we are legion.

[brookefox]

It's nice to have an excuse to say what is obvious to all users here about the virtues of this place, and I'm grateful you have done it so nicely that I don't have to tax my brain to do so.

I'll just thank you all as well cause you are it and it is you, and ever the twain shall meet.

[thomthom]

I agree, we should stay independent and a voice of the users and not the owners. We can be objective without restriction. Trimble can pay for advertising which will help fund this forum.

Would this forum still be considered independent if we were funding it?


john
.

Independent in terms of running it? Or Independent in terms of economy?

[jgb]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

When Google "re-crafted" the original SU forum I just and left. Some (short) time after I found SCF and never looked back. The very few times I revisited Googles SU forum I have always been disappointed with the answers, especially from Google's staff.

Never here.

Yes, SCF can withstand some tweaks, and many have been discussed in other threads, such as having a dedicated thread section devoted to only major plugins, so we don't have to hunt for that forum when we need help.
(yeah... that was mine )

And I think the level of advertising is just enough to be noticed, but not intrusive, unlike most other boards I've been to.

[Jeff Hammond]

And I think the level of advertising is just enough to be noticed, but not intrusive, unlike most other boards I've been to.

well, there's a major paradigm shift that occurs when the corp that owns the product also owns the forums.. the whole entire board becomes the advertisement and everything you say (more/less) represents said company.. so if i'm in a negative nancy mood (and i guess i'm on the borderline of such a mood right now ) then my posts risk deletion simply because it may be painting the corporation in a bad light..

i get it, corporations are what make the world go round these days.. the general population are/provide the bottom line.. but i think more corporations need to remember that we're more than just numbers.. we're humans.. and we do human things.. and we think like humans think etc… so cater to that.

[Richard]

I certainly hope that the "Trembles" look closely at these forums and realise it's a resource they haven't even paid for that by default comes with the purchase deal and in that way see the "TRUE" value of the asset they have acquired and plan a line of least disturbance!

The PushPullBar started in some way similar to the SCF - as a breakaway from the original @last forums way back to develop on the "design aspects" not so much on the techniques and process of modeling with SU. Yet the emphisis is still much on SU as the tool of choice for deriving concept! If in the unfortunate case of change a similar morphing may be a consideration I guess!

I certainly wouldn't at this stage have any vision for this but I'm certain the community has the strength to support change should it become necessary!

My gut feeling though is SU will survive and all the hoo har is just venting!

Re funding from the "Trembles" - for me this is probably of more concern, financial support or advertising that may put off balance the "unbiased" nature of the forums. I was made aware recently that to some degree this already occurs within the forums where discussion on non contributing (advertising) applications is squashed or frowned upon. If Trimble become a major contributor given this direction - can the forums maintain this "discuss all" direction without the issue developing to full censorship??

[Hieru]

I certainly hope that the "Trembles" look closely at these forums and realise it's a resource they haven't even paid for that by default comes with the purchase deal and in that way see the "TRUE" value of the asset they have acquired and plan a line of least disturbance!

The PushPullBar started in some way similar to the SCF - as a breakaway from the original @last forums way back to develop on the "design aspects" not so much on the techniques and process of modeling with SU. Yet the emphisis is still much on SU as the tool of choice for deriving concept! If in the unfortunate case of change a similar morphing may be a consideration I guess!

I certainly wouldn't at this stage have any vision for this but I'm certain the community has the strength to support change should it become necessary!

My gut feeling though is SU will survive and all the hoo har is just venting!

Well said

[EarthMover]

I seem to remember there even being a full Bonzai3D developer Q&A and advertising on this forum. There have been 20 page threads as to why Sketchup and Google suck. The point being this is a place to explorer all options and to vent. I enjoy the open and generally unbiased atmosphere here. It's less about brand loyalty and more about a community of like minded model geeks.

I think too much developer funding would ruin that.

[Jeff Hammond]

..but if trimble is planning on getting a sketchup forum going under their wing then at least they're being smart about it **..

it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the mayor & co know what they're doing..

(and maybe more importantly.. when they don't know what they're doing, their assumptions on how they should do it always seem to pan out properly )


EDIT -- **assuming trimble/jb are in fact making the offer.

[findthong]

- This forum is also a treasure to Trimble, they get ton of feedbacks for free. Without going out and do much researches, all SketchUp veteran come here and pour their wisdom in freely. Both positive/negative feedbacks are from people who love, care and understand SketchUp.
- I do monitored this forum long before registered, but I've been to those official Google group just 3-4 times for a few minutes. I suspected there're a lot of people like me. Official or not is not important,they are the people, contents and activities that matter. I almost never post anything becuase my english is not up to standard, I go to my local forum for that.
- Trimble should sponsored this forum in transparent manner, such as rewards for competitions in categories like components, models, techniques, Ruby plugin which will be 'free' to download as usual with no string attached. And that should be a good amount of money, not softwares only. Trimble should always raise up the standard for free plugins/contents to help raise the bar of SketchUp. And official plugins should do better or combine them and improved as 'distributions', so people see the values and happy to buy. It's a bit like open-source world like a CMS called http://Drupal.org, they are open-source and have ten thousands of modules developed for freely use, even for commercial purposes. And companies who founded by project owner later combined,developed and maintain them as distributions, caters for specific website uses, and give it out freely again being called Drupal Commons, Acquia Drupal, OpenScholar, OpenPublish, Conference Organization http://www.acquia.com/downloads#commons, then they provided add-on services for even convenient use. And no one can stop the user to install/modified the distribution further, any modules in Drupal ecology can also added later. And there're many more companies using this model based on Drupal. And most of them even paid/sponsors these module writers to develop more and more, and that's always in 1,000-10,000s $ ranges. And they always develop new modules for their own use and give it for free to Drupal ecology too. But one thing they never do is 'prohibited or killed those free content/plugins', contrary they 100 percent support and help them grow business. It's the right way companies can synergy with open, independent developers. I see many companies successfully grow by help their user grow, extend and push the platform to the limited. If SketchUp will be a platform, this is one of that proved successful. SketchUp can't grow if they prohibited free plugin or those Artisan, 1001Bits, Smustard, Formfonts, Maxwell, V-Ray or etc. They are Apps, and Trimble's SketchUp is iOS/app store. And Trimble being in the same position of Apple, the owner.

And to me, the most expensive asset of this SketchUp acquisition is user base. Software easiness can be copied eventually, try Bonzai3d or FormZ 7. But No 3D software can do this, BIG user based which have somewhat related to 3D modeling and it's not Google core/competant business. If it is, they will know what to do with it, acquisition would never happened for sure. I believe trimble, at least know the way to engineers/AEC pros/students. But what about average people, how they can monetize it. We should help them figure out in some way, so things can go win-win situation.

I understand Trimble need profits to answers questions from shareholders, but if realized that's not just applied to itself. There're ways to make convincing answers and give new and promising perspective. Their user need to pay bills and making money too, keep those 30 millions (or more) free users and let them grow and built business on SketchUp too. SketchUp have the potential to be the biggest 3D software in term of user base. Can Trimble make 3D modeling grow to 100 millions ? It's up to their decisions. And even Dassault will be afraid of that.

I'll know the direction of Trimble by seeing what it would do with this forum:
- If they positive about it, they will find many ways to support and see this independent forum as an valuable assets (And sure to assign/paid someone to monitor it). This user forum already bias a lot to SketchUp . They'll love it if they don't planning to do something wrong.
- If they feel somewhat unsure, fear or don't understand the value of this forum, they will leave it as is or with support that don't help raise the bar. Then it's mean they don't really understand SketchUp and don't have clear vision how to grow it. We know SketchUp Developments will be the sam as an Google age.
- If they feel negative with it forum, independent developers or even slow down Ruby API. That's also means they will leave free, things that don't generate income for them and frugal users behind. They are in for $$$ only. We all know the future won't be bright anymore.

There're a lot things Tekla or softwares in Trimble PortFolios can take benefit from SketchUp developments, both internally and independent developers. If they see the other way, I'm going somwhere else for sure. The world is moving on, I can't get stuck too long. If even Trimble failed to acknowledge from core devs meetings, so they'll also don't understand current users.

IMO This forum and core SketchUp developer reaction are the two best indicators of SketchUp health. We all know what they think, if they try to censor or not do good supports to any of them

[Alan Fraser]

Not forgetting that the Boulderados will then maybe have the option to design their own website again...as in @Last days, instead of having it shoehorned into some bland corporate house style where you couldn't actually find anything.
God! I hope Trimble don't impose their own present web style. That would be a disaster.

[thomthom]

Not forgetting that the Boulderados will then maybe have the option to design their own website again...as in @Last days, instead of having it shoehorned into some bland corporate house style where you couldn't actually find anything.
God! I hope Trimble don't impose their own present web style. That would be a disaster.

Ditto! I hope for a whole new website that present the whole environment of SketchUp, with it's resources (materials, components tutorials) and extensions ( render-engines, plugins ). Build their blogs into their website so the information doesn't appear to be so scattered.

[Hussel Hann]

So...Whats next? Trimble SketchUp "back to square" 1? or it will continue with 9? any news about the latest version guys?
As a new + unexperienced + not so often SU user, it is hard for me to understand the essence of this discussion but it "smells" serious
I think I'll just ride the wave...all the best to SU and SCF

[findthong]

Not forgetting that the Boulderados will then maybe have the option to design their own website again...as in @Last days, instead of having it shoehorned into some bland corporate house style where you couldn't actually find anything.
God! I hope Trimble don't impose their own present web style. That would be a disaster.

Ditto! I hope for a whole new website that present the whole environment of SketchUp, with it's resources (materials, components tutorials) and extensions ( render-engines, plugins ). Build their blogs into their website so the information doesn't appear to be so scattered.

That's the only way they could have the official websites that people actually use .
I think if they do really well, most people will feel very welcome to go there too.
And in fact, they can provide a place that facilitated forum, wall, downloads better than what ever available in SketchUp ecology. And place it in android market, and app store or Ruby plugin