A new home for SketchUp

[bigstick]

I agree 100% with kwistenbiebel's calls for a 3d engine that works much better with a massive polygon count. Any BIM type development is definitely going to need it!

[kwistenbiebel]

I agree 100% with kwistenbiebel's calls for a 3d engine that works much better with a massive polygon count. Any BIM type development is definitely going to need it!

Most definitely.
In our office, Revit is rolled out as CAD and semi BIM application.
We notice that for projects where collaboration on one 'model' runs up to 8 people, the 'model' needs to be split up in parts referenced in as the software starts to crack with the huge amount of 3D data that is in there..
For example , a simple door component (a 'family' in Revit) has all the 3D information to the detail, making a file super heavy after a while.
My guess is that current Sketchup isn't up to that task.

I can't imagine Sketchup becoming a full BIM application for this reason.

It is more plausible Sketchup remains a 3D tool in it's essence, with optimisations and extended tools that incorporates BIM elements.

I can't imagine Sketchup to become a next gen Revit.
And it would be boring as hell in the first place lol

For me personally,I find higher poly count optimisation more important in terms of allowing to use high poly 3D objects like trees, furniture etc, that enhance photorealism a lot when using the advanced render engines...

[chedda]

I just noticed trimble do have a page on Facebook, they have some videos too if anyone is interested. My new major concern is continuing support for the mac platform as it seems all their other apps are windows only.

http://apps.facebook.com/trimble/?ref=ts

[IdahoJ]

I agree 100% with kwistenbiebel's calls for a 3d engine that works much better with a massive polygon count. Any BIM type development is definitely going to need it!

It's always been my understanding is that SU was developed to be a simple, intuitive and quick application to create 3D models with a somewhat limited poly count. Why create a subdivided cube when a plain 6 sided cube will suffice? Quick is predicated on models that don't have a massive polygon count. So far, SU has been just that ... Take away the simple, intuitive and quick aspects and we might as well use 3DMax, Zbrush or Blender to name a few ...

So, if I were Trimble and I wanted to integrate the SU engine into "field applications" I sure wouldn't morph it into something that would handle high poly counts or an "advanced" 3D engine. There's no need. Consider this: a guy in the field is doing some geo work and needs a model of a particular building for site he's at. He's on 3G/4G for connectivity. Someone at Trimble, for instance, has already whipped up a SU low poly model of the building and made it accessible for downloading to the field. The SU object doesn't need massive polys, or UV mapping or even texture mapping. It needs to occupy a physical space on a plot in a field device. I would expect downloading a SU file under 1meg for instance, would be preferable to something larger.

Another aspect, if the SU engine is integrated into field equipment, we're possibly talking about mobile devices like glorified smartphones with limited processor or memory capacity. So again, handling a high poly count is not useful.

Speculation is so much fun. Just my spin on it ... cheers.

[Jeff Hammond]

So he (Mark Harrison) rides in, drops the bomb and scatters!
Not good.
Void of real assurance.
Doesn't stick around to answer some questons. Not good from a PR point.

you gotta put yourselves in their shoes.
they could hang out on the net all day and have enough people engaging that the conversation would never end. (meanwhile, the real work is being neglected)

dunno, on my job sites, I try to keep client interaction to a minimum.. only the facts ma'am and only issues that are immediate etc.. otherwise, they'll just sit there and chat my ear off all day long.


[EDIT] oh.. and that reminds me of a super strange time i had a couple of jobs ago where the client was fairly openly hitting on me and one of the guys on my crew.. ..but i'll save that for the corner bar (or actually, i'd rather not get into the details online.. ..it was just a weird situation and brought a lot of unnecessary stress/complications to the job site)

[Ecuadorian]

For example , a simple door component (a 'family' in Revit) has all the 3D information to the detail, making a file super heavy after a while.

Then Autodesk needs to take a page from videogame development and adopt Dynamic Level Of Detail (aka "LOD"). The closer you get, the more detail is there. Lumion uses this for vegetation.

[mptak]

I have mixed memories of dealing with Trimble software. Way too many locks however they did have some nifty on the fly topographic tools in the trimble office software. I guess it may be time to roll from ruby to python to cover my bases however. And what will happen to sketchy physics?????

[Edson]

if for no other reason, the acquisition of Sketchup by Trimble brought a lot of excitement back to a forum that had gone very quiet recently, with the exception of the plugins subforum, always full of good news. these last 24 hours remind me of the time of our rebellion against the move to a google-style board which resulted in the transformation of Sketchucation into what it is today: a 118.000+ strong community.

having said that, I am becoming more optimistic as time passes. I seem to read between the lines of every post by john bacus a lot of optimism and enthusiasm about their move to trimble. I also understand he is saying as much as he can but I get enough from it to give me hopes we are in for a better Sketchup/Layout combo.

[chedda]

IdahoJ that's an interesting response, of course your right in it's essense simplicity is sketchup's forte however i'm in the archviz business. I love sketchup to bits and i am constantly battling to get the detail i need. It doesn't help that my renderer of choice (maxwell) loves polygons.

[Jeff Hammond]

My new major concern is continuing support for the mac platform as it seems all their other apps are windows only.

yeah, i get that vibe as well..

one thing to note however is that the suTeam are generally mac heads (and one of the snarkier comments i've ever seen online by jbacus has been a win/osx thing and his preference of using mac).. surprisingly, a disproportionate amount of people in this thread are mac users as well..

the idea that trimble would simply drop mac support or cripple sketchup on mac compared to future windows versions just makes no sense (to me)

[chedda]

I suppose it opens new roads for them, i am also aware that cad generally lives on the pc though.I noticed in Mr Bacus's signature that he uses a mac so i guess there is some hope. I just hope they don't suggest bootcamp like autodesk (max). After all sketch up uses open gl which kind of lives on the mac right ?

[solo]

We still talking about this?

Relax, all will be revealed in time, contuinue as nothing has happened.

I actually think the psuedo hippie SU team will be a fresh new injection into what so far seems a stiff, results orientated, German disciplined company.

[Krisidious]

As long as John and the SU team are going with SketchUp I feel it's going to be ok. I already have everything I need if no one ever changed anything in SketchUp, of course there are things I would like to have... but as far as need? I'm doing pretty good.

The most important thing to me is really this place. The place where I get answers when I need them. when Google bought SketchUp from @Last and shut down the forum they had... we were left scrambling. Thanks to our Father Coen and a few others this new place was born and now with this place we are protected from abrupt change without our consent. Even if the software changes we still have the community to help each-other through the breach. that being said, some of our founding members are not around anymore for this reason or that... and that makes me sad.

So onward and upward to better things and Trimble, we'll be watching... so fly straight.

[bjanzen]

John, how ironic. I was just sitting in the bathroom stall next to Mark, thinking the exact same thing. (Sorry for the bathroom humor, couldn't resist). We do get to keep our sense of humor, irony, and, and... what was that third sense, Governor Perry??? Oh yea, EPA.

b

So he (Mark Harrison) rides in, drops the bomb and scatters!
Not good.
Void of real assurance.
Doesn't stick around to answer some questons. Not good from a PR point.

[thomthom]

So he (Mark Harrison) rides in, drops the bomb and scatters!
Not good.
Void of real assurance.
Doesn't stick around to answer some questons. Not good from a PR point.

Ah, come on! John Bacus has replied many times - the product manager. And several of the SketchUp team has been replying on varius channrls. Your claim is unjust.

[Mike Lucey]

...... The most important thing to me is really this place ...... SketchUcation ...

So onward and upward to better things and Trimble, we'll be watching... so fly straight.

Nice sentiments Kris and thanks from the SketchUcation Team.

Now regarding your last comment regarding Trimble flying straight! While having my chat with John B yesterday he told me to check out the recent acquisitions by Trimble. This I have been doing this today and am quite impressed. One particular accusation has caught my eye, Gatewing and its x100! You can check it out here ....... Mmmmmm, I wonder if they would be interested in sending one along for a test and review in Catchup

[Dan Rathbun]

That should be Goodbye Google Earth,

No it is going to become the focus of their activity...they are in the positioning business.
Good news for the arch-vis community.

Perhaps now that SketchUp will not be a Google product.. we can also say "Hello MicroSoft Virtual Earth, and other 3D mapping service(s) integration" ???

[Dan Rathbun]

... I see that Trimble also has Tekla. Tekla has a good reputation here in the Netherlands for Civil engineering software and is the biggest competitor for Revit. ...

So the possibility exists, that Trimble may brand the "stand-alone" edition as "Tekla SketchUp" ??

[Jeff Hammond]

John, how ironic. I was just sitting in the bathroom stall next to Mark, thinking the exact same thing. (Sorry for the bathroom humor, couldn't resist). We do get to keep our sense of humor, irony, and, and... what was that third sense, Governor Perry??? Oh yea, EPA.

b

So he (Mark Harrison) rides in, drops the bomb and scatters!
Not good.
Void of real assurance.
Doesn't stick around to answer some questons. Not good from a PR point.

LOL

(sorry, on a phone.. editing this post to specify which part exactly I'm laughing at is too much of a chore... something in the above was very funny though)

[Edson]

...... The most important thing to me is really this place ...... SketchUcation ...

So onward and upward to better things and Trimble, we'll be watching... so fly straight.

Nice sentiments Kris and thanks from the SketchUcation Team.

Now regarding your last comment regarding Trimble flying straight! While having my chat with John B yesterday he told me to check out the recent accusations by Trimble. This I have been doing this today and am quite impressed. One particular accusation has caught my eye, Gatewing and its x100! You can check it out here ....... Mmmmmm, I wonder if they would be interested in sending one along for a test and review in Catchup

mike,
accusation or acquisition? this whole thing is getting to you...

[Dan Rathbun]

Trimble ... may be good guys, but their website is a mess and it doesn't relate to or engage end user customers in the slightest. It's vague, unfriendly, difficult to find stuff, and full of commercial speak that is almost meaningless.

I will submit it is not supposed to, at all.

That website has the personality of a high-end OEM, that caters to large professional customers, perhaps through a vendor / distributor path.
(Ie, the vendors may actually be the 1st contact for product support, to the customers that they sold the Trimble product to. Similar to how a computer manufacturing company, Dell, Compaq, etc., supports the OEM editions of Windows.)

I would think, that it will be more likely, that a new website will be set up for the "stand-alone" SketchUp edition (perhaps with "Free" content, and "Pro" content accessed by signing-in.)

[EscapeArtist]

Huh, must've hit the wrong button on a previous post, it's not here.

LOL @ the simplified SU, that's kind of what I'm fearing regarding the possible stark difference between the free and paid versions. And, even though it isn't proven, the rumor of pay-for-ruby is also a negative for the community (not for the ruby devs, though. If they get to make some $ in the end, great!). Trimble is also a corporation that has a definite clientele, whereas Google would at least give anything a try at least once. That means SU could be pushed in the direction of a Civil Design product with features that are meaningless to many SU users, and possibly loss of features that are useful.

Also, if there is a sharp divide everyone, I wonder about all of the render apps that have grown up around SU. If they are forced to change to meet a different platforms needs, what would happen to those of us who use the older software? Would we be left out of the newer versions that may not be backwards compatible? The same applies to rubies.

Anyway. This is all speculation and as of yet, unfounded worries. Hopefully there won't be any drastic changes. All of us will still have SCF ( or whatever it will be called) to call home and the community to be part of.

[Ericschimel]

Hey guys, I got some new information on Trimble:

http://sketchthis.net/more-information-about-trimble/

Nothing earth shattering, but the video is interesting. Worth a few minutes to watch.

I didn't realize how big Trimble is!

[Derek Edison]

I just caught the news on slashdot this morning and had other things to do before seeing what was going on in here. I've been a member for long enough but I don't ever post obviously. I felt I had to pass along what I've indirectly experienced with Trimble in the past. It seems that most people here have no experience at all with this company.

Let me start by saying I am trying my best to be optimistic and I have faith in the dev's given the fantastic software they have built. There is nothing better for the task of 3D modeling IMHO. I hope that dealing with a large company like Google has given you the savvy that you need for Trimble. I agree with many here that I don't see a good fit though and I've added R&D for other modeling apps to our Strategic Planning. That said here's my story:

Trimble's current software portfolio has a CAD product in it named Terramodel. Try and find it on the website. (It's there) We were long time users of this CAD package back in the 90's. TM was initially developed by a small (compared to Autodesk) company in Atlanta GA named Plus3 software back in the day. It was billed as their 'flagship' product. Developers listened to us and it had features that were more suited to Landscape Architecture and Engineering than AutoCAD and we felt it was far superior. (R14 days)

Any of this sounding @familiar?

Then they were bought out by a company named Spectra Precision. Basically they made surveying stuff and were not interested in taking the software in any direction other than their core business. (fair enough) We decided to move to Autodesk shortly after Land Desktop hit the scene and it was clear SP was not going in the direction we wanted with Terramodel. Not long after that Spectra Precision was acquired by Trimble. When we left Terramodel for Land Desktop around 02-05 (can't remember exactly) Terramodel's version number was 9.7. It is version 10.6 today almost a decade later. What are they going to do with SU? My Network Admin's reaction was 'kiss of death'. I hope he's wrong.

D.E.

[ely862me]

Neah...too much waste on this matter.. Who cares what they will do? We have a stable version of Sketchup and we have the ruby guys(yay !) .I think it is enough! If we go like this(fair to think the google team didn't upgraded the versions as we thought each time,just minor fixes). All the new tools are from the ruby guys, not from Google.

Certainly we would like some more from Sketchup but we might never have it , as in real life-we want something more but we will never have it !


I think we are doing it pretty good ! Plugins will flow as they did and we'll keep Sketchup 8 alive(or move to something else-if you already haven't ).

IMHO

PS: If you ask me , it's all about the money !

[g_wilson]

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned Dassault as possible purchaser of SU. In today's Vancouver Sun An article in business section might explain why it didn't/won't happen:

"French 3- D software giant covets Vancouver mining program expertise
Vancouver’s Gemcom Software International expects a friendly $ 360- million US takeover by France’s Dassault Systemes will give it an even larger footprint in the global mining industry.

Gemcom, a privately held company founded in 1985, is already a world leader in geology and mine planning software that’s used by companies ranging from the Vancouver junior exploration sector to senior multinationals such as Teck Resources, Codelco, Vale and BHP Billiton.

Dassault announced Thursday that 360 employees and management at privately held Gemcom would remain in place following what is described as an all- cash acquisition. Gemcom has 4,000 mining sector customers operating in 130 countries. The deal, subject to regulatory approvals on the Euronext exchange where Dassault trades, is expected to close in July. Dassault has an array of three- dimensional modelling platforms for business and industry, from fashion design to auto design to deep sea oil rigs. Notable clients include Boeing, Airbus, BMW, Ford, Under Armour and Guess."

[Anssi]

... I see that Trimble also has Tekla. Tekla has a good reputation here in the Netherlands for Civil engineering software and is the biggest competitor for Revit. ...

So the possibility exists, that Trimble may brand the "stand-alone" edition as "Tekla SketchUp" ??

And move the team here- Welcome to Finland!

Anssi

[brad]

Not late to the party, I've just been lurking on this post and I frequent the bugs forum and Ruby forum from time to time.

Some of you know me I'm Brad on the SketchUp QA team. I've been working on SketchUp since v4. I went through the @Last -> Google acquisition now from Google -> Trimble.

I love the passion this community has for SketchUp. As John said earlier, if there was no reaction we would be worried. The fact people are voicing concern about "our" baby makes me feel good. You care about SketchUp as much as I do!

From the people at Trimble I have met and talked to I can tell you...they are lot like we are, they "get" SketchUp. They know we are passionate about SketchUp. They know our users are passionate about SketchUp. They know our users are not just some people that use SketchUp, it's a community of people who don't want their baby being touched by a stranger.

I excited about the future! I don't know what is going to happen in the future but I'm moving forward with the SketchUp team to Trimble to get this party started.

[jbacus]

welllll there was trueSpace and Microsoft...

Microsoft also owned Softimage (remember Softimage?) until they sold it to Avid in 1998. Who then sold it to Autodesk in 2008.


john
.

[andybot]

All the new tools are from the ruby guys, not from Google.

Exactly! If SU were to disappear down a black hole, we still have a great program as it is enhanced by the plugins (sorry SU developers, that blame is aimed squarely at Google ) I do hope there's freedom to develop the program in ways that had languished before.

We'll see... (geez, I'm waiting for vfsu, now another wait on where SU goes. Oh well, guess I better get back to work.)