3D Truss Models

Re: 3D Truss Models

The two most common drip edges I've seen applied to residential roofs are the right two profiles shown in this image:

drip-edge-shapes.jpg

It would be more light weight to represent these metals as simple edges and faces but then they would Z fight with whatever they are resting on so I guess it is probably better to assign a thickness and model them as a solid instead.

So the two options to start will be a L or a D drip edge (not sure why they call it a D). The dimensions will all be customizable like the roof gutters.
0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

I've decided to put the drip edge on hold for just a bit and focus on the secondary roof module.

There is really two ways to handle this. You can either start with a primary roof and then add secondary roofs that tie into it. Or you can allow the user to pick the building outline (any polygon) and utilize a straight skeleton algorithm to compute the roof planes. There are some pros and cons (limitations) to each method.

Obviously with the straight skeleton method one would assume that the fascia lines up all the way around the roof so it doesn't lend itself to secondary roofs like dormers that may be positioned up on the roof.

However, the straight skeleton allows for some really complicated scenarios that you just cannot achieve with a secondary roof methodology.

A few months ago I was trying to come up with a robust straight skeleton algorithm and somehow it defeated me. This morning I took a slightly different approach and I now think I've finally solved it:

Step 1:

Step 2:

Step 3:

Step 4:

Once I have the roof "solid" I can then easily pull out the edges that represent the hips, ridges, valleys and flying hips. From there it is just a matter of some tedious logic to detect whether to frame a common, hip jack, valley jack or cripple jack (hip/valley jack).

Of course the devil is in the details but I now think I have a path forward for complex roofs, this is major breakthrough.
1
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

I will also need a tool or function that allows the user to toggle specific roof planes from hip to gable or back again.
0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

The complex roof algorithm seems to be fairly robust thus far, I haven't been able to break it just yet. However as I am contemplating how to make it so that each roof plane is adjustable (variable pitch) it is quickly becoming apparent that such a feature would become very complicated.

The issue really is a situation where you have a particular roof plane that you want to adjust. You then change its pitch (assuming all other pitches are left the same) and the roof gets recalculated. In certain situations that roof plane may then merge with another roof plane. If that happens then one of the two roof planes is absorbed by the other (both pitches must be equal of course).

The difficulty seems to arise in the tracking of each roof plane and the custom pitch assigned to it. The number of roof planes can be variable. The ability to edit each roof plane will need to be an "on the fly" sort of tool which allows the user to adjust only one roof plane at a time and then recalc the entire roof to re-determine the shape of the roof and hence how many and where its new roof planes actually are.

The easiest way to store this information, in my option. is to maintain the roof solid group (on a separate hidden layer). From this solid the roof planes can quickly be ascertained as well as the outline or footprint of the roof. I'm still thinking this one through as you can probably tell.

Initially the roof will be drawn with one overhang and one pitch. Where the edit menu can take it from there is where it potentially becomes quite complicated.

Consider a complex roof like the one below:

I can see that the framing can be accomplished with some basic rules/logic however non-orthogonal roof outlines will probably require some additional logic.

The tool that allows the user to define the footprint or outline of the roof should allow for the selection of a face or allow the user to pick points that then define the closed path of the roof outline. The code required to do this is already within my foundation plugin and will only need some minor modifications to make if work for this module as well.
1
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Version 2.4.1 - 05.25.2019
- Parameter hightlight (input) color added to General tab of global settings.
- Parameter change highlighting enabled for the gable and hip rafter roof edit menus.
- Added the indexing parameter for roofs and floors to the General tab of the global settings.

A few minor items addressed per recent customer requests.
0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Since the hip rafter roof now has soffit and fascia I thought it would be fitting to add the same treatment to the gable roof, however the gable roof is surprisingly more complicated when it comes to soffit and fascia. Take the example shown below:

A number of questions arise:

1.) The sheathing terminates at the sub-fascia (at the eave, per previous discussion) however should it extend out to the gable fascia? or just terminate at the gable sub-fascia as shown?

2.) The cladding may need a different treatment even for hip roofs and for gable roofs. Rather than relying on the cladding extension parameter to bring it out over the fascia maybe bring the cladding out to the fascia by default and then the extension parameter brings it beyond the fascia if desired? The cladding extension parameter should also really be per the horizontal rather than per the roof plane due to complications with asymmetric roofs.

3.) A number of possible configurations can exist at the corner where the eave and gable soffit meet. Ideas? I don't even know what these variants are called, but I've seen them all. Some architects really don't like the soffit boxes but even these are popular in many regions.

http://diydiva.net/2010/11/building-sof ... tallation/

4.) Should the gable fascia terminate as shown or extend beyond the eave fascia (projection). The projected gable fascia seems to be very popular in western Washington.

5.) The gutters will naturally be offset if fascia is specified but should I extend the gutters to terminate flush to the gable fascia or leave them so they terminate flush to the gable sub-fascia?

These roofs are complicated business. Lots of little details. Even though I'm not an architect or designer I've still got to deal with them all since I'm creating a tool that involves all of these subtle design decisions. Structural elements tend to be a bit simpler in my opinion.
1
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

I really have no idea if this is the correct way to build a soffit box but here is one possibility:

A couple things jump out at me:

1.) Note the double miter cut of the gable fascia.

2.) Note the addition of the two pieces of fascia to create the soffit box.

3.) I've shown this soffit box with a 15" return (the minimum return) however one could extend the return further and the eave soffit would then morph into an L shaped configuration. So if this type of soffit configuration is specified I should also provide the user with the ability to set the return length.

With gable roofs and their soffit and fascias it looks like I've open yet another can of worms.
1
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Here is a soffit box with an extended return (4"):

Note the L-shaped eave soffit.
1
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Version 2.4.2 - 05.27.2019
- Enabled soffit and fascia for gable rafter roofs.
- Enabled a roof cladding extension parameter for gable rafter roofs.
- Enabled custom materials for roof sheathing and roof cladding in the HTML edit menu for gable rafter roofs.
- Added the soffit box extension parameter for gable rafter roofs.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/ ... after-Roof

Note the trimming of the ridgeboard if required.

Currently there is only one way to soffit and fascia the gable roof but if there is enough call for it I can also look at this type of configuration:

0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

The other configuration I've noticed being used quite a bit locally is the angled soffit:

Personally I think this type of soffit works better where the rafter tails are square cut and not plumb cut otherwise the sub-fascia will probably need to be adjusted (beveled) on its bottom to ensure that the soffit fits correctly.

The one thing to note with this arrangement is that the gable soffit and eave soffit should be coplanar. In order for that to happen the depth of the rafter tails must equal the depth of the rake board (barge rafter). One way to achieve this if the rafters are quite deep is to trim them as shown in the image. An alternative approach is to match the barge rafter with the actual rafters but this will result in a very deep/thick fascia and a heavy look.

I'm just thinking out loud here so correct me if I'm seriously mistaken with any of my musings. The angled soffit is certainly another option that I could add in but I need to make sure there is call for it and that I've got it right.
0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Now that I have at least one option for soffit and fascia for a gable type roof it makes sense that I extend this functionality to the truss module. However with common trusses I also have the option for various roof returns:

I will need to add some additional logic into the soffit and fascia module so that it can properly handle these more classical roof returns.

If you look at this a little bit further it becomes apparent that you have the gable soffit dropping down into the roof plane of the return. I'm not entirely sure how this would be framed out, but it sure would be helpful to watch a crew installing soffit on a gable overhang where it comes down and meets a hip roof return like the one shown.

The fascia and eave soffit with its extension seem pretty straight forward.
1
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

A quick mock up of a truss roof with hip returns and soffit and fascia:

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/ ... and-Fascia

I could get all fancy and try to trim the gable soffits so they intersect the hip returns perfectly but looking at it now it doesn't seem to terrible if I just terminate them as I have shown and the carpenter in the field will adjust to suit.
1
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

First look at soffit and fascia applied to a common truss (fink) roof:

If you look closely you can see the roof cladding is extending out over the gutter (0.75"), I'm adding the cladding extension parameter to the advanced options for trusses.

Even though this is working great now for the common truss I still need to add the logic in to handle the hip roof return and full return configurations. I also have the configuration where the back side of the assembly is truncated to allow for abutting next to a wall. This will require yet another soffit and fascia configuration.
2
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Due to the complications caused by roof returns I had to jump through a few more hoops to get the soffit and fascia (and roof cladding extension) fully functional for common trusses:

Unfortunately, I still cannot release these latest upgrades to the public because in changing up the advanced options module I may have possibly broken other truss types.

Tomorrow I will need to do some thorough checking to make sure the other truss types: attic, scissor, monopitch, cathedral etc... are working correctly and can now work with the soffit and fascia module.
1
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Probably another solid day with soffit and fascia (extending it to many of the other truss types) and then I will be back on the rafter module and pushing hard to get something pulled together for secondary and complex roofs. I still need to come back to the drip edge but I think it can wait until I have the more important stuff dealt with. The nice thing about drip edge is that it will not affect other geometry or modules, it will just be an add-on, much less complicated.

In the process of revamping the gutter and roof returns module in order to handle soffit and fascia I did manage to turn up a few additional bugs which I have addressed. Its always nice to kill two birds with one stone.

As the complexity and depth of the plugins have increased I am finding it more difficult to juggle all of the plugins at once. Lately, I have given the other plugins a rest (except for critical bugs or minor fixes) and then dived deep into the current plugin of interest. At some point it would nice if I could bring on additional help so that development is ongoing with each plugin on a daily basis.
0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Quite a number of fixes to the attic truss module. The floor sheathing option is also now exposed in the attic truss edit menu.

Full Return:

Roof labels and callouts also added to this truss type.
0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Soffit and Fascia now available for Scissor and Cathedral trusses:

I've also taken the time to make the cathedral truss type parametric (edit menu).

I only need to look at the monopitch truss edit menu and address a few changes to it and then I will be ready to push all of these changes out to a new version.
2
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Version 2.4.3 - 06.02.2019
- Enabled soffit and fascia for the following truss types: common, attic, scissor, monopitch, cathedral.
- Enabled a roof cladding extension parameter for truss roofs.
- Enabled the "Edit Truss Assembly" function for all cathedral trusses (imperial and metric units).
- Added the floor sheathing option to the attic truss edit menu.
- Parameter change highlighting enabled for truss roof edit menus.
- Roof returns (full and hip) enabled for monopitch trusses.
- Addressed some minor bugs with the truss gutter module.
- Soffit and Fascia added to truss roofs with full or hip returns.
- Labels and callouts added to attic, scissor, and cathedral trusses.
- Added the soffit box extension parameter for truss roofs.

Monopitch variants:

This was a fairly substantial upgrade with lots of changes. I wrapped up quite a few hours of testing today but there will probably be something that gets away from me, there always is.

Now its time to go after the much larger fish... Complex and secondary roofs.
0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

*** The Medeek Truss extension will no longer officially support SketchUp 2015 and SketchUp 2016, only SketchUp 2017 and newer will be supported. ***

I have reluctantly made this decision based on the additional time and effort I am spending trying to put in place additional logic (band aids) within the code base to ensure that the plugin maintains compatibility with these older versions of SketchUp. At some point it is simply no longer worth the effort.

If you are plugin user currently running one of these older versions of SketchUp, I would strongly suggest that you upgrade to ensure continued operation of the extension. The current version of the extension will probably still work with either SketchUp version however moving forward there will be no guarantee of compatibility.
2
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

The angled soffit (soffit applied parallel to rafters at both low eaves and gable eaves is a common feature of ca 1900 houses out here in California, farm houses and Victorians.
1
MacOSX Mojave ShetchUp Pro v19 Twilight Pro v2 M2 Kerkythea PowerCADD

pbacot
Top SketchUcator

Re: 3D Truss Models

medeek wrote:*** The Medeek Truss extension will no longer officially support SketchUp 2015 and SketchUp 2016, only SketchUp 2017 and newer will be supported. ***

It's probably a good idea to keep a downloadable file of the last compatible version available for those that are still running the now unsupported SU versions?
0
Save the Earth, it's the only planet with chocolate.

juju

Re: 3D Truss Models

Looks like Justin has featured the plugin in a demo of Quantifier Pro:

It would have been better if he had turned on the gable truss option in the global settings but regardless I appreciate the featuring of the plugin.

Justin does a nice job with those videos.
0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Working on the edit menu for the shed rafter roof. If the user enables soffit and fascia for this roof type I will need a small routine that checks the rafter depth and trims the upper rafter tails if the rafters are deeper than the barge rafter (rake board):

For the lower end rafter tails the soffit cut parameter takes care of this problem, however with an angled soffit I will need a similar routine for the lower rafter tails as previously discussed in a post a few days back.

Roof returns (rake, hip and full) have not been enabled for rafter roofs yet, that is something that will need to be setup for this module as the truss module already has this feature.

A number of other upgrades for this roof type as well: Front and Back gable overhangs, Roof cladding extension.
1
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Version 2.4.4 - 06.05.2019
- Enabled soffit and fascia for shed rafter roofs.
- Enabled a roof cladding extension parameter for shed rafter roofs.
- Enabled the "Edit Roof Assembly" function for shed rafter roofs (imperial and metric units).
- Added the option in the shed rafter roof edit menu to specify a separate front and back overhang length.
- Shed roofs auto-trim upper rafter tails as required when soffit is specified.

0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Version 2.4.4b- 06.06.2019
- Enabled gable and angled soffit & fascia for shed rafter roofs.

0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Version 2.4.5 - 06.07.2019
- Fixed a minor bug with the shed rafter roof module.
- Enabled gable and angled soffit & fascia for all gable rafter roofs.

View model here:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/ ... after-Roof
0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

I've beaten soffit and fascia to death but there still remains more to be done.

The gable and angled option still need to be made available with the truss module. Additionally I have not yet enabled soffit and fascia for hip truss sets as well as other more exotic truss types.

Note that soffit and fascia can only be enabled once the roof or truss assembly is created (within the edit menu). This is on purpose. Only those truss or rafter families that have the edit function available can have soffit and fascia enabled.
1
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Version 2.4.6 - 06.08.2019
- Enabled gable and angled soffit & fascia for common, attic, scissor, and cathedral trusses.
- Enabled gable and angled soffit & fascia for monopitch trusses.

0
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author

Re: 3D Truss Models

Version 2.4.6b - 06.08.2019
- Added the ability to import materials directly from the model within the Custom Material Libary/Manager in the global settings.

This update was per customer request. The direct material import feature previously was added to the Wall plugin but was missing from the Truss plugin.
1
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson PE
Medeek Engineering Inc
design.medeek.com

medeek
PluginStore Author