Remove the SKX forum ?

Moderator: Jim

Remove the SKX forum ?

Postby Dan Rathbun » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:48 pm

Chris Fullmer wrote:I'd bet we could do the same for the SKX forum.
... referring to ...
Chris Fullmer wrote:Is it time we let this one go?
Otherwise, should we just put a [SKX] tag in all the topic titles and move all of them back into the regular developer forum and close this sub forum?


Can we wait a week or so on the SKX forum. I'd like to make a local archive, before they get scattered into the Dev forum.

If that's what we really want.

For MY posts .. no I don't want them thrown into the Dev forum. I want to make sure I have copies, and then delete them.

Chris Fullmer wrote:If we do ever start working on either of these again, its probably more useful to use the forums built into git or mercurial or whatever so we can use bug tracking, feature requests, etc.


Yes BitBucket is where I would move my code snippets.

However... we are in limbo concerning eXtending the API. The new Ruby API EULA by Trimble has a clause that prohibits creating an API for other to use.

I asked a question "What constitutes 'an API' ?", but got no answer. (Likely engineer types are not allowed to answer such legal questions, an the lawyers probably don't know what an API is.)

This also has put WebDialogX in limbo, IMHO.

The main problem we have is that the community at large will not embrace private projects, because they don't come from Boulder, or have the "Trimbler" blessing. Developers are afraid that the genuine API will go off in another direction.

Lastly... I have come to REALLY appreciate BitBucket (and dislike Git.)

@Chris ... There are not really free flowing forums in either of them. There are topic threads that are bug reports, feature requests, etc. But not a real forum like this.

Anyway.. IF the project can get restarted on BitBucket (or Git if we cannot talk Boulder into hosting it on BB,) ... anyway when it does get restarted and kicks into high gear... and we need a place to private place to gab in a way that Git doesn't have.. THEN we could open a temporary Beta forum (which should have limits, say 6 months?)

The purpose of SKX really was to breadboard API additions in pure Ruby, prove them, and hopefully have them rewritten into the C-side of the API.
At the very least use them for awhile as pure Ruby extension(s), but officially distro'd in the Tools dir, by Boulder. And then eventually.. hopefully they'd get "baked into" the C-side.

But then we had a challenge of how the Ruby side would know how not to load extensions once they were baked in.

And that's where it laid. And peeps just went and wrote private libs so they could get things done.
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    Re: Remove the SKX forum ?

    Postby Dan Rathbun » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:58 pm

    Just to clarify why I do not think these posts should be moved back into the "public" forum.

    We are trying (although it seems a losing battle sometimes,) to teach newbies to keep out of the API namespaces (classes and modules.)

    Again today, a relative novice has found one of Didier's API modifying code posts, and just ran with it.
    EX: Group in a group in a group...

    In which he quoted this post:
    Re: Face.clone

    I am becoming weary of warning newbies (and not so newbies,) that they should not do this.

    Would anyone else support a ban on posting code samples that modify Ruby OR Trimble API namespaces on PUBLIC SCF forums??
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      Re: Remove the SKX forum ?

      Postby Chris Fullmer » Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:24 am

      I don't see how the two relate. The SKX project was an actual SketchUp extension library that was started on code.google.com and is now largely dead so we want to dissolve this subforum which doesn't get enough posts to warrant keeping it alive. Also, the SKX google project site we had been using is already deleted.

      People modifying base classes will happen whether we keep this subforum open or not.

      As for banning posting code that modifies Trimble/Ruby namespaces - I don't know. Feels like overkill, and YET so very often people are copying bad code from someone who had posted bad code. So I'm not too opposed to removing bad code from people's posts as long as it also involves adequately helping them learn how to do what they want without breaking SketchUp.
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      Re: Remove the SKX forum ?

      Postby Dan Rathbun » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:35 am

      Chris Fullmer wrote:I don't see how the two relate. The SKX project was an actual SketchUp extension library ...

      Because there was not really a SKX Ruby namespace (module) that wrapped the library.(*)

      It was started as a project NAME, that had a series of files that DID modify or add methods to the Trimble (then Google,) SketchUp API namespaces. This forum has code samples that show how easy it is to modify API classes and modules.

      Some of them I myself posted, but they were for the experienced guys participating in the project discussions.

      The relation is code postings that show the modification of API modules and classes.



      * - Late in the project, I did propose that there actually be a SKX module that had library management functionality and a UI similar to the native Extensions manager dialog.
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        Re: Remove the SKX forum ?

        Postby Chris Fullmer » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:09 pm

        I don't know Dan, I'm lost. This was a project to try to create an extension library. If we posted code that shows bad techniques, that was part of our learning process. If someone copies and pastes it, eventually they'll be caught when their plugin starts breaking other plugins. And they'll go through the same learning process. Here's what I think. 1 - Lets delete this subforum because its not being used for what it was intended for, to collaborate on an extension. 2 - lets continue to help and correct everyone who posts samples of poorly written and potentially conflicting code.
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        Re: Remove the SKX forum ?

        Postby Dan Rathbun » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:20 am

        Chris Fullmer wrote:I don't know Dan, I'm lost. This was a project to try to create an extension library.

        Yes you are! :roflmao:

        I just looked at one of the files, written by YOU, that adds two module methods to the Geom module, viz: ::bezier_points() and ::midpoint().

        We cannot extend the API itself, without modifying it, so we never were writing "bad code."
        We KNEW what we were attempting to do, because those involved in the project (for the most part,) were very experienced rubyists.

        When Jim started the project, he knew we would need to have the blessing and involvement of the Google SketchUp Development Team in Boulder, and Scott Lininger was participating in the discussions early on, and was interested in the project.

        BUT.. as we now know from hindsight (and little veiled comments dropped here and there by the Googlers,) the Google Earth Div of Google, Inc., never had much interest in expanding the API. (Not to mention even fixing API errors, or correcting the API dictionary!) Their sole interest was the forced integration of Google Earth features, regardless of what 99% of the userbase needed, or wanted. (A really weird business model, IMHO.)

        Anyway.. the "interest" by any Googlers, never translated into an "official" blessing or support by Google, Inc.



        However... the basic idea of the project still has merit !

        Everything I said in the philosophy post, stills stands true.

        In addition, the project is not dead in my mind nor on my local hard drive.

        I have made personal changes and additions to my local copy, from time to time, even after Jim deleted the Google Code site.

        :!:
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          Re: Remove the SKX forum ?

          Postby Dan Rathbun » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:36 am

          I am trying to save the entire forum as a local web archive.

          It has been quite awhile since I did this. I remember some where a setting to follow the links on the first page, so that all the topic pages are also saved and the links go to the saved files, instead of online links, that will be dead once the forum is deleted.

          I thought I used to do this with MSIE. But I cannot find the "follow links" option.

          Does anyone know how to save the entire forum locally to a directory, using any of Chrome, MSIE or Firefox ??
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            Re: Remove the SKX forum ?

            Postby Chris Fullmer » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:31 am

            I do agree the project absolutely has merit. And if you're still actively interested in it and are planning on keeping it alive, then lets keep the forum open. I only suggested closing it because we are not posting here often so I presumed SKX was dead.

            If we just want a place to collect discussions about proper coding practices, well that's what the developer's forum is for.

            So lets go ahead and keep this subforum alive. I'm not opposed to it if there is still interest, and obviously there is!

            Chris

            I don't know how to do a webcrawl backup though.
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            Re: Remove the SKX forum ?

            Postby Dan Rathbun » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:26 am

            Well dang it, the Firefox "Scrapbook" addin is crap!

            First of all, it wants to save the ENTIRE SketchUcation website, not just THIS forum.

            2nd, it crawled the whole website, so now I have "read" everything, when I really have not.

            3rd... the worst!, ... it somehow bumped ALL the posts that I am the OP for.
            (How it did that I wonder... not expected at all.)




            I tried the RSS feed option, and all I get in Chrome is a XML text file.

            :?:
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