MONDAY MAINTENANCE

[Dan Rathbun]

I don't really like the current favicon, so I offer this as an alternative.

That looks great!!! I love it. Nice shadow effects.

BUT.. it's a PNG, not a BMP.

we need 16x16 and 32x32 pixel BMP to put into an ICO file (using Visual Studio or whatever. Does the GIMP save in ICO format?)
You'll lose the nice anti-aliased edges of the PNG (which is why mine looks ragiddy, and I even used the font tool so it was an actual 'U'.)

Like I said.. MS needs to update the ICO format to hold PNGs (which would also update the CUR format at the same time; they are the same but have different header flags.) Sketchup showed that PNGs can be used for cursors.

[thomthom]

BUT.. it's a PNG, not a BMP.

Favicons are not required to be ICO.
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/howto-favicon

The format of the image must be one of PNG (a W3C standard), GIF, or ICO.

[Dan Rathbun]

BUT.. it's a PNG, not a BMP.

Favicons are not required to be ICO.
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/howto-favicon

We are really talking about what MSIE sets as a standard (we all know MS ignores any std they wish to.)

Creating Icons in the Correct Size and Format
A shortcut icon for Internet Explorer must be square in size, and at least 16 x 16 pixels. Consider creating both a 16 x 16-pixel icon as well as a 32 x 32-pixel icon (and larger, bandwidth permitting), since on high-DPI displays, Internet Explorer may stretch the icon to fit the available space.

To create the icon, use an icon editor, such as Microsoft Paint* or the one included in Microsoft Visual Studio, and save the icon in the .ico file format. Internet Explorer will ignore icons that are not in .ico format, and will instead display the default Internet Explorer shortcut icon.

* MS Paint can open ICO but not save in that format.

I would LOVE it if this info at MSDN was out-of-date and ver 8 can display PNGs as icons.
ThomThom, have you done a test ? (I notice the favicons that the MS websites use are still ICO format.)

[thomthom]

Doh! I had to go back to my own site and checked what I'd done back then. Been a while since I created a favicon. ...how silly of me to think IE was standard compliant... *grumble*

Ok - I converted the PNG into a ICO. (Which I had to zip because ICO is not allowed to post...)

[Dan Rathbun]

...how silly of me to think IE was standard compliant... *grumble*

True indeed!

Ok - I converted the PNG into a ICO. (Which I had to zip because ICO is not allowed to post...)

The 16x16 looks good, looks ok in Explorer Details or List mode..
..BUT you didn't put in a 32x32 so the 16x16 is expanded and becomes blurry in Tile or Thumbnail mode.

What app are you using ?? Visula Studio will open Jim's version but won't save it in 32bit color mode.
I need to find a better app for doing Win32 icons and cursors (that handles 32bit color mode.)

[thomthom]

I only had the 16x16 PNG. But I suppose I could use the U with the hat for the other versions with higher resolution.

I use IconDeveloper a Stardock application. Very quick an easy to compile icons - even Vista Ready icons.

[Jim]

What are you tryin to support again? IE6?

The favicon.zip file contains both images, is made in Gimp, but I'm not sure it's correct.

[Dan Rathbun]

What are you tryin to support again? IE6?

MSIE 7 and 8 will load ICO favicon automatically.
MSIE 5 and 6 require the user to actually 'bookmark' a favorite in order for the icon to appear with a 'favorite' in the Favorites List (don't think 5 or 6 had tabs, so no tab icons in those versions.)

What I'm talking about (viz: Details, List, Tile & Thumbnail) are the view modes in Windows Explorer (not MSIE.) This is important because Favorites, are really just a folder containing shortcuts (.lnk files) and can have an .ICO file associated with them.
This (and other shortcut folders,) are not just displayed within MSIE (ie: tabs, toolbars, menus, favorites pane;) they are also displayed natively by Windows itself on custom Taskbar Toolbars or on the StartMenu Favorites Menu (if enabled.)

Individual lnk files, can be displayed alone, using the icon, in many places: on the DeskTop (where 32x32 is usually used up to XP,[Vista can use higher res icons,]) or on on the 'Pin' area of the XP StartMenu.

I have found that the easiest way to manage 'Favorites' is to use the native Windows Explorer to drag links around from folder to folder within the Favorites folder heirarchy. (It's simialr to how Rick's Organizer works. MSIE Favorites Toolbars, Menus and SubMenus are really just folders under the %USERPROFILE%/Favorites folder.)

The favicon.zip file contains both images, is made in Gimp, but I'm not sure it's correct.

nope.. it's showing both sizes as 2573x1293 pixels.

Let ThomThom combine the PNGs into one ICO file with his App.
(They definately look better than my VS fontmade attempt!)

[thomthom]

Let ThomThom combine the PNGs into one ICO file with his App.
(They definately look better than my VS fontmade attempt!)

Jim included an icon in that zip file in his last post.

[Dan Rathbun]

Jim included an icon in that zip file in his last post.

And I said ... well let me be more specific:

It does NOT appear to be a valid .ico file !!

Both 'icons' are showing as size 2573x1293 pixels, and appear fully transparent, in Visual Studio.

Windows Explorer cannot display either of the internal icons in his file, in any folder display mode.

[thomthom]

The icon opens fine in my app.
And Windows Explorer displays the 16x16 in Small Icon view - and uses the 32x32 in larger view.

[Jim]

The icon opens fine in my app.
And Windows Explorer displays the 16x16 in Small Icon view - and uses the 32x32 in larger view.

Yay GIMP!

[Jim]

Hey Dan, I switched the order of the Layers - I put the larger icon on the bottom layer. Windows was reporting the .ico as being 16x16, so I swapped them. I replaced the .zip - does it work now?

[Dan Rathbun]

I replaced the .zip - does it work now?

Works as an ico file should now.

The 16x16 displays as it should in List and Details mode. (which is also used in MSIE tabs and Fav menus.)

Icons mode: The 32x32 displays as it should (and looks great,) in Icons mode.

Tiles mode displays 48x48, and Windows will choose the closest size (if no 48x48) and stretch it, so the 32x32 does look a bit raggedy when stretched in this mode..

Thumbnail mode: The 32x32 displays as the same size as in Icons, but a wee-bit raggedy in Thumbnails mode. (Using TweakUI, and Increasing Quality or Thumbnail size has no effect. Just the way it will be unless you add in a larger icon to the set.)
Note that Thumbnail size set by the user, (I use MS TweakUI to change it.) I Cannot remember what the default size is for XP out-of-the-box. I had my setting at 96x96, but I just lowered it down to 64x64, (which I think is a common icon size for Vista.)

Also the scf_grad.png (108x107) looks good in Thumbnail mode at either 64x64 or 96x96 (so it should also look good at 80x80.) Cannot check Tiles mode, as Windows will not display PNGs in that mode (ONLY ico.)

Anyway.. Windows needs the images in .ani, .cur & .ico container files to be in size (then color bit,) order. It automatially chooses the best size and color depth to display in various situations.

So CONCLUSION: As is, it's fine for a website favicon. (Small in bytes.)

But you may wish to create a fully stocked scf_win.ico for Desktop use. Users would put it in an Icons folder (of their choice,) and maually change icons to it for 'custom' Desktop links, or shortcuts, etc. (And that version would not disappear when they clear their Browser's cache.)

[stanmarsh]

hi Coen,

the rss feeds seems to be broken. it stop working in google reader.

[Dan Rathbun]

Coen, noticed the 'chevron' collapse button is not initially displayed correctly.

It's first displayed at the start of the next line, rendered as a native button. If you click it, it disappears, and the 'chevron' button appears where it should.

[driven]

Safari, Reply.jpg

doubled up in safari on Mac...john

[Dan Rathbun]

doubled up in safari on Mac...john

Yea.. John same on MSIE (probably all browsers,) as well as the "New Topic" button.
Coen knows, he's working on it.

How about the collapse 'chevron' button on Safari (in the blue SubForum bar, when you go to the Developer's Forum main page.) Is it being rendered at the start of the next line on your PLAT ???

[driven]

before click.jpg

after click.jpg

same on all pages, revert once you change page

[Gaieus]

That's a plugin that doesn't seem to work with this new board. Either needs to be updated (if there is a new version) or removed.