Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby L i am » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:34 am

Not sure where to post this, so defaulted to the corner bar. Am trying for a job at the other side of the Country which could involve tropical waterfront work. Since I have nothing in my folio that covers that I began designing a waterfront yesterday. I have attached some images of where I am at ATM. The render took about 10 mins and is very raw as is the model. I have used the only HDRI I could find (HDRI haven) that even remotely work so the shadows are wrong relitive to the percieved light source. I dont want to just use a backgroundas I will not get the reflexions that are working for me. Any suggestions for improvment would be welcome. I intend to find some good textures, lots of plants, more watercraft including jet ski's, paddle boarders etc and about 100+ poeple milling around. Again suggestions/ideas welcome.
Screenshot render.jpg
Screenshot 1.jpg
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby L i am » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:16 pm

Thought I would post an update. About 10 more hours of work today. Need to address the sun direction and put in some hi res people in te forground and lots of other stuff. So prob about another 8 hours to "tune" as not happy yet.
1.jpg
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby solo » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:29 pm

I am currently doing a lot of 'tropical' renders, first thing is a reference, do you have images of the locations where this waterway will be? do you know the tones of tropical waters? the native vegetation of the tropical zone?
There is a lot more to tropical and subtropical areas than just palms and water.
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby L i am » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:59 am

solo wrote:I am currently doing a lot of 'tropical' renders, first thing is a reference, do you have images of the locations where this waterway will be? do you know the tones of tropical waters? the native vegetation of the tropical zone?
There is a lot more to tropical and subtropical areas than just palms and water.



Hi Solo, all good,thought full points thank you.
I have worked in the roll of Landscape Architect in that area (North coast Queensland and adjacent to the Great Barrier Reef) previously for a short time. Palms are endemic and are very prevalent in the area and very much part of the vernacular. Delonix regia (Poinciana tree) is also represented although not endemic but has been adopted heavily all along the tropical and subtropical Queensland coast. I can understand your point completely though, but that may be partly due the the fact that I have only placed the main architectural, vertical plants to see how they work with the buildings as the work progresses to test the composition. Part of my task today will be making choices about the other minor, more grounded plants to fill the planting out.
As far as the water, agreed also, and I will be experimenting with that today. Am toying with the idea of putting in a texture below the water so the depth can be read, not sure how I will achieve that yet.
One of the main problem I see is because of the HDRI environment and Sun direction, I do not have enough light on the people as they are cut outs. But I do like the look of the horizon I think I may have to change the Sun direction to optimal (Sun behind camera) and then save the render without a background so I get the reflection of the HDRI on the model/buildings, but then replace the sky/horizon with another image once I find an appropriate one.
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby solo » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:35 am

What render engine are you using?

Can you not add a sun with the HDRI?
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby L i am » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:34 am

solo wrote:What render engine are you using?

Can you not add a sun with the HDRI?



I am using Raylectron. I just remembered that I can make the water transparent but I had invertantly push pulled the water's surface.

Yes I can set the Sun independantly of the HDRI but kind of think that damages the integrity of the image as it is contradictory. Would like to know your opinion on that. If I could get away with it I would like to. I have been struggling with getting a good background image for the last 2 hours and getting nowhere. Am struggling a bit TBH.
Oh by the way it is either "set sun from HDRI" OR HDRI with sun set independently
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby L i am » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:16 am

Hi, have attached the final render, It is without post processing work. This is the best I can do and it has faults. Bottom line is, I will need to get my head around Photshop or Gimp ;)
Waterfront WP small.jpg
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby ntxdave » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:00 am

I certainly am no authority but I personally like the 2nd render the best. A little lighter antdom me the boat and dock show up a little better.....

Regardless of which one you go with...…..I like all of them.
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby L i am » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:08 am

ntxdave wrote:I certainly am no authority but I personally like the 2nd render the best. A little lighter antdom me the boat and dock show up a little better.....

Regardless of which one you go with...…..I like all of them.


Hi Dave, thanks:) thing is due to trying a raw render and tweaking it, Sun angles, intensity, fiddling with the HDRI...................... I lost the plot and started to chase my tail if you get my drift. It's all about nuance I guess.
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby solo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:56 pm

If you are committed to rendering 'tropical' locations and insist on using HDRI lighting I'd suggest investing in an HDRI library so you are not restricted to the few you have, I'd also look into good 3D people and not 2D cut outs.

When you start a next project and need help, let me know.
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby L i am » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:30 pm

solo wrote:If you are committed to rendering 'tropical' locations and insist on using HDRI lighting I'd suggest investing in an HDRI library so you are not restricted to the few you have, I'd also look into good 3D people and not 2D cut outs.

When you start a next project and need help, let me know.


Thanks mate, I understand what you are saying and investing in assets is my goal. Just playing and experimenting within my limits for now. I have learnt so much from failures so far:)
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby solo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:51 pm

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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby L i am » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:35 am

solo wrote:If you are committed to rendering 'tropical' locations and insist on using HDRI lighting I'd suggest investing in an HDRI library so you are not restricted to the few you have, I'd also look into good 3D people and not 2D cut outs.

When you start a next project and need help, let me know.


A question to Solo and others here who are involved in Exterior Architectural rendering: What percentage of your work, is post production (Photoshop, Gimp Etc) to augment your renderings? I supose that may be hard to quantify, but just a ballpark however you wish to express it.
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby solo » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:04 pm

Little to almost none actually, I rarely ever do any post production in a photo editing software, the only times I do use Corel Paintshop, my choice of editor is when I manipulate a material or alter a satellite terrain photo to suit my needs.
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby L i am » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:12 pm

Thanks, I had a look at your folio for the first time, nice stuff :thumb: I came to the conclusion from the images that that was the case. So I think the answer is that everyone will develope there own workflow/style. I will just keep working and see where I land, no substitute for experince I guess ;)
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby solo » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:43 pm

L i am wrote:Thanks, I had a look at your folio for the first time


Yeah, my website is lacking, I have not added stuff in a few years, I have a ton of stuff I cannot show due to NDA's and a lot I just have not uploaded due to laziness, I do not think my website has even yielded a client in the last 10 years, I really only use it for email purposes.


After many years doing this one gets a workflow that becomes comfortable, and every now an again one gets a client who messes with the system too.

What is your workflow?
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby solo » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:03 pm

Here is an example of my photo editing I do occasionally, these images are scaled down 10x or more to fit this forum.
First is the original satellite image which normally comes in around 12000 pixels wide:

Barefoot beach original.jpg


Due to new construction the terrain will change, so photo editing was needed, The beach was cleaned up and the shallows were cleaned by removing kelp and seaweed, I do not care for stuff one cannot see or stuff that will be hidden in shadows, but as you can see I did the bare necessities to get image to work, who has time to fiddle these days as projects of these scale only have about a week from start to end, gone are those days we would have a moth to complete them.
So here is the butchered image:

Barefoot beachmodified.jpg


As you can see I spliced in a bit of Bali beach into the grand Cayman. Now I apply this material to my terrain, I find using the standard Google terrain within SU is normally good enough, if I need to make alterations I can select the area and using Artisan I can subdivide and sculpt as needed then reapply the projected terrain over the new mesh.
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby solo » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:16 pm

Here is a compilation of a few of the images resized to fit.

BFB.jpg
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby L i am » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:27 pm

At the moment, it is Sketchup and rendering. With no post processing at all. I resort to many lights which has an effect on render time. So I wait to get the image in the render so I can see what is happening and because of the complexity of my lighting takes some time. I then In light of the output close it down and then make adjustments. It is extremely inefficient and feels like a neurotic feedback loop searching for something acceptable which almost never happens. Have been studying Photoshop on YouTube for architectural rendering which seems appealing but has a different "feel" Hopefully I will learn to integrate the two. But that will only come with experience and I can employ a cost/benefit analysis approach
So I guess I am just a student ATM. Have the passion though.
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Re: Waterfront model render/ Suggestions please

Postby solo » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:48 pm

Post processing can really make an image "pop" but when there are several images in a project it becomes a time sucker and can grind your workflow down and waste time, I feel i can model and set up my renders good enough to completely avoid post processing, allowing me more views at less time.
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