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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Gareth » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:40 am

juju wrote:
Gareth wrote:With every disaster comes an opportunity.....

.....if sea levels rise substantially, someone who owns a property 2 streets back from the beach might eventually have a beachside property and the property value will increase...!! :lol:

I don't think 2 streets back will cut it though (depending on topography), and imagine the view with so many dilapidated structures in the water. :?



yep...and that's why i carefully chose the words 'might eventually'

....certainly wouldn't help if there are rows of multi storey apartments on the beachfront though....the view wouldn't change for a very long time....!!

On a serious note, humans have a lot to answer for and if Futurepast's comments about methane are correct (and I have no reason to doubt it) it is something that should be acted on quickly.

I recently watched a documentary about some scientists here in Australia who have discovered that methane gas can be more than halved by mixing a particular type of algae with cow fodder (and much easier than using a cork...!). The next step is to find ways to commercially harvest vast quantities of the algae...!
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Mike Amos » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:27 pm

A belated happy B'day to you Baz.
I agree with so much of what has been written but temper this with my Trekkiness. If the human species continues to chuck female hormones into the water table we will affect the reproductive potential for more than just our own species. Politicians will not introduce a method of dealing with this because if they reduce the birth rate, pensions and health care will become luxuries out of reach for the poorer in all our nations. Take an example of London. The prices of renting and buying homes is so high that waste and recycling operatives (bin men/women) will be hard to find soon. Something like 40,000 council and lower cost homes will be lost when HS 2 is implemented, what will happen when they manage to get HS 3 into the plan I could not tell you. On top of that Heathrow airport is going to get another runway taking away whole villages. If we do not get our population under control we will become our own worst enemy. Yes, water too and food production etc etc.
Putting my Trekk head on, I do truly believe that one day we will get off our backsides, kick out the priveledged politicians who cannot find a single cheek with the combined hunting hounds stables, a sat nav, a map AND both hands. THEN we might have a chance...... Cue Star trek theme tune crossed with that of the outer limits......
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Mike Amos » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:30 pm

On the topic of algae, I saw something out of the corner of my eye while surfing the web. Apparently there are some who think the blue/green algae blooms that are clogging up waterways COULD be harvested and treated as a food source, that and the Japanese plan of a few years ago where poo was recycled and re sequenced into a steak. Not sure I could afford the thing myself but whatever floats a boat.
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Mike Lucey » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:26 pm

Well said TIG. However no matter what the small guy does as an individual, the globalists (Big Business / Banks) currently can easily counter his / her efforts and continue on as normal.

The only way individuals can make a real difference is by a collective revolution and this is happening with the movements on the ground and on the Net were they are pressurising politicians to kick out the globalists proposals.

On the ground its happened with Brexit, Trump and in Italy's recent referendum. It look like ordinary folks are finally waking up and revolting.

The Net has played a huge part in this reawakening and we had better protect it with all our might as the globalists are trying hard to control it at present.

Mike
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby pbacot » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:01 pm

Asad and his ilk, we've had for some time, but looking around to these latest leaders Sisi, Duterte, IS, Le Penn, Erdogan, Putin, and now Trump. Pretty dark times if you ask me. I see these guys as one block. The rise of the right and the evil of the 30's all over again. Who's in Italy? I didn't catch that, Mussolini?

Oh and Trump is actually a clownish pawn of sorts. The devil himself is back in the White house or some "undisclosed secure location"--Cheney.
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Stinkie » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:35 pm

I don't, for obvious reasons, trust the likes of Erdogan and Putin. But Trump is in a league of his own, I think. A plutocrat, sure, but far less predictable than the aformentioned tw*ts. The US are in for a bumpy ride. I'm hoping the Trump presidency, and Trumps apparent lack of both morality and responsability, won't prove to be a catalyst for widespread civil unrest and violence in the States.

As for Duterte: that man should not be president of anything.

Mike Lucey wrote:On the ground its happened with Brexit, Trump and in Italy's recent referendum. It look like ordinary folks are finally waking up and revolting.


Could be. The people they're siding with, though, don't have their best interests in mind, if you ask me. What's an average guy like me got to expect from, say, Trump, Farage, or that spineless jester, Boris Johnson?

All this talk about shaking things up, is all fine and dandy, but surely there's smarter ways to do so, than once again forming a mob and marching in the wake of a pied piper.
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Mike Amos » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:54 am

Actually, Boris saw the writing on the wall which is why he took what seemed to be disparate views on the same topic. People may think him a clown but that is what he WANTS people to think. Underneath that mop of blond scrag is a very sharp political mind. The problem with every day folk seeing that the idiots in the EU are only plotting for their political gain rather than you and me is that we still have to rely on politics and the practitioners of said dark art. Certain leaders in the EU have been building a new nation and it has already cost countless lives. How many lives has the open boarders policy cost? How many were lost in the invasion of the Ukraine? It may not be politically acceptable here but I really think a certain amount of shove towards the Ukraine invasion was the suggestion the EU should have a standing army made up from all member nations. The Ukraine was also actively attempting to join the EU. Obviously the bigger nations would have to provide more troops and money. I will not name the crisis but a while back a nation on the Indian sub continent sent some troops as part of their agreed contributions. They were asking the nation they took over from to donate weapons and ammunition because they did not have enough to go round. Sorry but it is a factoid.
Business around the world will decide policy because they have more clout with the practitioners of the dark art and those practitioners know about bread and butter preparation. I see no alternative other than people on the ground removing those practitioners and their puppets. Time for a clean sheet.
The UN could not hold a tea party in an establishment on the high street, those same practitioners are doing just enough to help arms sales and not enough to help those who need it. If the UN is to be worth a half chewed toffee it must take action to safeguard people in their own homes and nations. Until then we will have defenceless PEOPLE like you and me in an open boat hoping their children do not die trying to get to safety.
Perhaps this is the time of year and what is going on in the name of a deity I do not understand or believe in and perhaps it is thoughts of my family members that I have lost over the last five years. Or I am just tired and fed up like all of you.
In 1990 there was another event of senseless slaughter. The UK government which had reduced defence spending had failed to notice that its plans and policies were not meshing (Joined up thinking,a government?). The TA could only be forced to deploy in a NATO led action so they went on television during the news to ask for volunteers. Quite a lot of us who were outside of our reserve period volunteered. Organisation was absent and as someone who had organised inoculation programs myself and knew how to run them I should know. They deliberately denied access to the batch numbers and expiry date of the various doses and delivered these doses randomly. failing to observe international guidelines and good practice. These were found to be unfit for human use in about 50% of the doses held back for later testing but seeing that we had no evidence of the dose identities used could not prove they cause our illnesses. Sounds like a coincidence?
If what we did had ended up with easing the suffering of the people involved over there myself and others could see something positive and have a sense of closure. The result we see now on the news. Practitioners of the dark arts helping sales and helping kill innocent people across the world. Those people I risked my life to help happened to be Muslims but as far as I am concerned they were people who needed some help and protection so that they could be safe in their own homes and schools etc. What a bloody waste
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Mike Amos » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:41 am

I am going to explain what I was getting at with this addendum, the people who can make real change are the same dark arts practitioners I have mentioned already. These people cannot sort simple problems so what hope is there that planet wide issues will get resolution worthy of the name. If we can get the small and local family of all groups working together we have a chance. My faith say's it will, I just have to keep believing, despite everything and that is bloody hard.
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Stinkie » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:16 am

Mike Amos wrote:Actually, Boris saw the writing on the wall which is why he took what seemed to be disparate views on the same topic. People may think him a clown but that is what he WANTS people to think. Underneath that mop of blond scrag is a very sharp political mind.


Oh, I agree he only plays the fool. But that doesn't stop me from thinking that Johnson, first and foremost, is a cynic with a penchant for self-promotion. Boris first, morality second, the common good ... Well, to hell with that. As far as the man's involvement in the so-called Brexit is concerned, allow me to quote The Jam's 'The Eton Rifles': What a catalyst you turned out to be: loaded the guns, then you run off home for your tea .

What a coward.Yuck.

Mike Amos wrote:How many lives has the open boarders policy cost?


The EU needs work, that I agree upon. Yet, as such, it is the single most succesful peace building project Europe has ever seen. We should think twice before we do away with it.

Mike Amos wrote:Those people I risked my life to help happened to be Muslims but as far as I am concerned they were people who needed some help and protection so that they could be safe in their own homes and schools etc.


Hear, hear. All the current talk of terrorism, 'waves of' refugees and whatnot has made quite a few of us lose sight of something absolutely essential: you help those in need. The staunch refusal to do so, in my opinion, is nothing less than vilely immoral. Where I live, the mighty Kingdom of Belgium, it is punishable by law to knowingly refuse help to those in harm's way. And rightly so. Yet, as a country, that is precisely what we do, more often than not. I find that mind-boggling, and repulsive.

Equally repulsive: right-wing, nationalist politicians abusing the widespread suffering in, say, Syria to propel themselves upward in the polls. Sycophant leeches, the lot of them.

Ooooh, I'm on a roll.

Here's a pic to lighten the mood:
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby baz » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:44 pm

A lot of this seem to be getting bogged down in details.

The fact of the matter is: The fucking Planet is damaged now.

Good facts: Planet stuffed by 2200. (75 years). For many reasons.

Bad facts: Glacial melting will release so much Methane in the next 10 years that the Ozone Layer will essentially collapse. (Extinction by drought will be the main cause).

C'mon Guys. Acknowledge the truth even though you cannot see a way fwd.


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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Rich O Brien » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:34 pm

baz wrote:The fact of the matter is: The fucking Planet is damaged now.

Good facts: Planet stuffed by 2200. (75 years). For many reasons.

Bad facts: Glacial melting will release so much Methane in the next 10 years that the Ozone Layer will essentially collapse. (Extinction by drought will be the main cause).

C'mon Guys. Acknowledge the truth even though you cannot see a way fwd.


Yes, we're up shit's creek because we bled the planet of minerals and poured alot of shite into the environment. All for making our lives easier.

But I still hold onto some hope that young bright minds will hack a way to reverse the process or at least halt it.

I can't rely on g20 nations to agree to unify on carbon emissions. Here in Ireland our tax on Cigarettes pays the fine for exceeding Carbon emmissions. Our Govt has no intention of making changes to our fossil fuel approach. It's easier to tax smokers.

As a civilisation we are risk takers by nature. As long as there's any element of doubt we tend to hedge our bets. Sad that the wager we are considering now is annihilation with no one nearby to learn from our mistakes.

Maybe Santa will be us the kick up the arse we need. Failing that a nice pair of Yeezys so I look good in my self driving electric car as I stream Netflix wirelessly and binge watch Stranger Things.
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Mike Amos » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:28 pm

Stinkie, the EU may be salvable but not until the whole thing is root and branch revised. Overspending, growing beyond reason and a standing army suggest the Nazi "Grosser Europa" or whatever they wanted to call it. A standing army too? That is not a group of trading nations which is what we joined but a European NATION and that we definitely did NOT sign up for. As far as forcing ever larger debt on Greece, how is THAT sensible and fostering cooperation?
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Stinkie » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:30 pm

Mike Amos wrote:As far as forcing ever larger debt on Greece, how is THAT sensible and fostering cooperation?


It isn't. :|
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Mike Amos » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:21 pm

Sorry, I talk before engaging brain. Moving on?
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Stinkie » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:47 pm

Mike Amos wrote:Sorry, I talk before engaging brain.


Maybe you ought to write speeches for the president-elect. :mrgreen: (I kid, I kid.)

Still can't believe that mean-spirited bigot got elected. A buffoon who believes climate change is a Chinese hoax, is going to run the most powerful country in the world. :shock:
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby andybot » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:02 pm

Stinkie wrote:Still can't believe that mean-spirited bigot got elected. A buffoon who believes climate change is a Chinese hoax, is going to run the most powerful country in the world. :shock:


Here we were in the US all these years laughing from a safe reserve at all those tin-pot dictatorships across the globe. Now we'll get to see it up close and personal :( :evil:
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby pbacot » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:19 pm

andybot wrote:
Stinkie wrote:Still can't believe that mean-spirited bigot got elected. A buffoon who believes climate change is a Chinese hoax, is going to run the most powerful country in the world. :shock:


Here we were in the US all these years laughing from a safe reserve at all those tin-pot dictatorships across the globe. Now we'll get to see it up close and personal :( :evil:


Yeah and I thought Bush was as bad as it would ever get. I feel guilty not seeing it coming--like global warming--though for so long it was off the average person's radar. I can't look. I'll just try to do good in my world and ignore him. Protest yeah, but don't expect reason from that ... let me stop here.
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Stinkie » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:55 pm

andybot wrote:Here we were in the US all these years laughing from a safe reserve at all those tin-pot dictatorships across the globe. Now we'll get to see it up close and personal :( :evil:


The US won't turn into a dictatorship overnight (I hope!). But the country might very well become even more of a plutocracy over the course of the next few years than it already is. In any case, the amount of sheer stupidity Trump and the GOP, which has become a downright caricature of itself (Rick Santorum, Sarah Palin, the list goes on), will inject into the system will, I fear, be unequalled. There will be considerable damage. And the average Joe, will he come out on top? Nah.

Things over here -Europe- are somewhat better, politically speaking, but not that much. Right-wing nationalism is on the rise. As are anti refugee sentiments, and, of course, islamophobia. And Trump's weird bromance with Putin is causing skittishness in the east of the Union. The EU, which, yes, is imperfect, seems to be slowly crumbling. I don't like that one bit. I am critical of the EU, but its advantages don't evade me.

Am I optimistic? No. Climate change, war, refugees, terrorist attacks, Pegida, Alternative für Deutschland -there's a sh*t storm coming. Do I nonetheless believe we, the people, should adhere to morality and decency? Yes, oh yes. There's nothing else that stands between us and downright barbarism.

Aspire to kindness, help those who need help, don't be a d*ck. That pretty much sums up my moralischer Imperativ. Good God, I sound old. And unlike Baz I only turned 40!

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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby ken » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:55 pm

By uninhabitable I mean...

Europe freezing because of the ocean currents.
Equatorial becoming arid.
3 to 5 metre sea rise.
Massive climate migration overwhelming others.
Mass extinction OF Flora, Fauna and Humans.


Each of these has happened in the past. And the earth survived.

Note: I am not a denier, I just think that some of this doomsday crap is overplayed. I really get tired of hearing that climate change is settled science. When not to long ago Italy sent a satellite into orbit to determine if Einstien theory about gravity affecting different masses the same is correct or not. If you can challenge Einstien, we should be able to challenge climate change without being made a punching bag. There is no settled science, none, nada.

To my knowledge, there has never been a good discussion with scientists from both sides on climate change. If your not a believer your and ignorant ass. Kind of reminds me of the Pope and Galileo.

Also, all the carbon in fossil fuel in and on the earth started out on this planet as CO2. The planet survived. Plants grow, large ones at that, animals came and went.

Now, I am ready for the sticks and stones and name calling. Have fun.

Ken
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Stinkie » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:37 am

Ken wrote:Each of these has happened in the past. And the earth survived.


The earth will survive climate change, sure. But we might not.

Ken wrote:I really get tired of hearing that climate change is settled science.


Science, by its very nature, is never 'settled'. Which is a good thing.

Ken wrote:There is no settled science, none, nada.


There's data and hypotheses. Science doesn't deal in certainties.

Ken wrote:If you can challenge Einstien, we should be able to challenge climate change without being made a punching bag.


There isn't anyone stopping you from challenging anything. If you were to provide irrefutable evidence the climate isn't changing, your name would end up in the history books. Go for it.

Ken wrote:To my knowledge, there has never been a good discussion with scientists from both sides on climate change.


You're joking, right?

Ken wrote:If your not a believer your and ignorant ass. Kind of reminds me of the Pope and Galileo.


To equate scientific consensus to religious dogmata, is to belie the vast difference between science and religion.
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby baz » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:10 pm

There ya go Ken, very civilized people around here. Stinkie got you on every point.

So deny this...
The planet, by any scientific or empirical measure, is damaged now.
Do you accept that?
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Mike Amos » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:37 pm

The thing is, I sort of understand where he comes from. Scientists are telling us two sides of the same coin is going to happen. We are moving into a new ice age and at the same time global warming is right under our noses. Scientists will say different things, at the same time and wonder why people are skeptical. The religious zealots of all kinds are just politicians with a different version of the same message too. Believe in what I say or you will go to hell in a hand basket, perhaps a prettier one than the next faith but all the same. With a bit of luck and squinting with both eyes, perhaps we can unite enough to make a difference, just not under a political, nationalistic, scientific or religious singularity. Perhaps we should all go to the pub, but, wait a minute.......
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Stinkie » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:13 pm

Did someone say 'pub', as in 'beer'? :thumb:


Non-related pic:
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Box » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:49 pm

backspace backspa
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Mike Amos » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:01 pm

When it all comes down to it, the most eloquent politicoreligiouspropogandacult statement ever was made by Homer J Simpson, "Beer, Arghghghghghghghghghghghghghghghghghgh". Make mine a ten gallon hat.
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Stinkie » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:40 pm

Ah, H. Simpson. :thumb: My second favorite philosopher. Number one is Bender. Would've made a far better prez, too.
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby pbacot » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:09 pm

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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Stinkie » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:15 pm

I'd laugh if I weren't too shocked. What an idiot.

It's going to be an, er, interesting four years.
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Mike Amos » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:41 pm

Sorry but.....
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Re: a few thoughts about the future of this planet

Postby Mike Amos » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:41 pm

Just a quick clarification. The post above is aimed at the only practitioners of the dark arts that I know and have experience of, Those in the UK.
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