Running Win on a Mac...??

[Frederik]

Hi All,

My sister in law bought a Mac laptop recently - only to realize that several of her applications isn't available for Mac OS... (Yes - she's blond... )
So she asked if I can help her and since I'm aware that several in here are using Mac computers and because several CAD programs don't work on Mac (natively) you'll need some kind of dual boot, which is the reason why I post my question here...
How do you run Windows on Mac...

I've learned that there's a program called VMware Fusion - but is this any good...?
What else do I need...?
Do I need to purchase Windows as well...? (now I'm the one feeling blond... )

Please let me know what experiences you guys (and girls) have and what advice you would recommend...

Thanks in advance...

[Paul Russam]

You have 3 options:
Dual boot
Its built into the mac and enables you to install Windows as a completely separate OS, Upon starting the Mac you can boot into OSX or Windows. Its free apart from the Windows Licence but the 2 exist seperatly and you have to shutdown and reboot each time you want to change.
http://www.apple.com/findouthow/mac/#windowsmac
http://www.apple.com/support/bootcamp/

Parallels or VMWare
Both of these allow the creation of Virtual Machines so you can run Windows in a window(or full screen) without leaving OSX just like any other Mac App. Printers, network etc are shared and files can be dragged from one desktop to the other without any problem.
Its slower than bootcamp but not by much and of course what memory you have in the Mac is now being used by both OS's
You can actually create an unlimited number of VM's so you could have Windows XP/Vista/7, Linux, Chrome and even another copy of OSX not only installed but running at the same time (memory permitting)
Both Parallels and VMWare cost money.
http://www.parallels.com/uk/products/desktop?icid=1479
http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/overview.html
I use Parallels and have no problems with it.


VirtualBox
This is a free VM app by Oracle.
I've never used it and I'm not sure how it works or how well, I think its limited in its graphical performance so apps like Word would be OK but AutoCAD or SU would struggle or not work at all.
I'm sure others here have had some experience with it.
https://www.virtualbox.org/

For Boot Camp and Parallels/VMware you'd have to get a Windows Licence (or use one from a now defunct comp), I don't know about VirtualBox.

Hope the above helps.

[Gaieus]

I am not a Mac user so cannot advise but I have heard that some (probably the more demanding) apps do not run correctly under Parallels - although that seems to be the most "convenient" thing.

[michaliszissiou]

Bootcamp solution is your best choice.
Adding VMWARE on the OSX will link this independent WIN OS to your mac.
So you'll have two options. Run WIN in simulation mode (works perfectly for Office) or just boot from windows (CAD solutions)
You can even forget OSX and just use WIN by default. But... you may prefer the secure OSX. Which happens to be a much better OS if I may say.

If she is really blonde, then, Bootcamp, make WIN the default boot and let's forget the whole thing.

[Aerilius]

For Boot Camp and Parallels/VMware you'd have to get a Windows Licence (or use one from a now defunct comp), I don't know about VirtualBox.

Virtualbox is now offered as opensource version (there used to be a proprietary/commercial variant) and all commercial gimmicks (USB 2+ etc.) are in an extra pack which is even (cost-)free for personal and educational use.
No matter whether it's a native installation or virtualized one requires a Windows license (so if you have already an old license, you could de-authenticate it on the computer it was installed on).

Virtual machines are nice if you rarely need a certain program or for testing new/untrusted software (before allowing it to mess with your system), but especially hardware acceleration is not available or experimental.
When performance matters, one should prefer to install Windows directly on the hardware (like dual booting).

[Mike Lucey]

One of my key apps Canvas is not now available on Max so I rely on Bootcamp, its solid!

[Paul Russam]

I'd forgotten about another option, you can install Windows as a Boot Camp partition getting you all the speed of a native OS but with the hassle of having to reboot every time you want to switch OS's AND THEN install Parallels in OSX and link it to the Boot Camp'd Windows OS.
This way if you want to do something quick and simple you can fire up Windows via Parallels from within the Mac Desktop and if you have something heavier to do you can reboot into Windows with all the performance that the Mac and bring.

[bmike]

I'm running a BootCamp Partition with Win7.
And I have Parallels running so I can get in there while working in OSX.

I can launch AutoCAD Architecture in Parallels and check plans, even pop open 3d models. If I need to do extensive work I reboot directly into Win7.

My accounting software and a few other miscellaneous pieces work fine in Parallels.



I opted not to link up the 2 OSs with their 'crystal' model or whatever they call it. Handy, I could see for folks who run lots of VMs and pop back and forth - but not for me. I've isolated the Win7 in Parallels, and I use DropBox to share files back and forth between the Mac and PC.

Here's a screen cap running some topo software:

TopoFusion, Mac, BootCamp, Parallels7 by mbeganyi, on Flickr

And one with AutoCAD open (in Parallels, in OSX):

Best of both worlds...! Run Win7 natively with a re-boot, or in a VM, using all the stuff you already have loaded up!

[notareal]

One possible alternative is dualboot OSX / Linux with wine. Many windows applications do work fine with wine. Benefit is that you will not need extra windows license. Gives also a option to never use mac... take a leap into linux world

[Frederik]

Thank you all...! Much appreciated...!
I've learned a lot from your inputs...

So... At least I need a Win license...
And then I can then choose/select between different VMware applications...
Jesus... It's going to cost a lot...
A Win 7 license is 215,00 EUR (app. 265 USD) and in addition the VMware which is another 45,00 EUR (app. 55,00 USD)...

Aahhh well... Guess she'll just need to "bite the apple"...

[Aerilius]

One possible alternative is dualboot OSX / Linux with wine.

Wine even runs on OS X (it's a lightweight Windows compatibility layer for all Unix)[1][2].
I don't understand why it seems not a so popular choice on OS X, in the case some software is not available, or "SketchUp crashes on Mountain Lion" or "feature ... is not like on Windows", then why not try the Windows version in Wine?

Although a real Windows would make sure that she had hopefully no need for additional support questions...

[michaliszissiou]

Although a real Windows would make sure that she had hopefully no need for additional support questions...

Exactly so. You have to pay for WIN OS only and that's it. She is blond if I recollect correctly.
Let's be practical Frederik. The set up is not for your needs after all. Or... is it?
I mean... I didn't mean that you're a blonde... Maybe something is running... I mean... well, are you gonna use this macbook in the near future?

[notareal]

Thank you all...! Much appreciated...!
I've learned a lot from your inputs...

So... At least I need a Win license...
And then I can then choose/select between different VMware applications...
Jesus... It's going to cost a lot...
A Win 7 license is 215,00 EUR (app. 265 USD) and in addition the VMware which is another 45,00 EUR (app. 55,00 USD)...

Aahhh well... Guess she'll just need to "bite the apple"...

No need for windows license, if you use wine.

[bmike]

You can save a bit of $$ and order up the win7 OEM from NewEgg.


Depending on what you want to do, you may want Parallels over VMWare Fusion.
A colleague has AutoCAD issues with VMWare, Parallels it works fine.

[Pixero]

A questions:
If I would run Windows both from Dual boot and Parallels, do I need two separate installs of Windows and all the windows software or are they one and the same?

[bmike]

A questions:
If I would run Windows both from Dual boot and Parallels, do I need two separate installs of Windows and all the windows software or are they one and the same?

All the same. Parallels points to the BootCamp install. It uses the same license of Windows (as well as AutoCAD, etc.).

Not sure how VMWare handles this, but thus far, working swell with Parallels and Win7.

[Aerilius]

I doubt it is a question of whatever virtualization solution you use.

The issue is that the authentication server recognizes a genuine installation by a list of hardware characteristics, if you change one component (RAM etc.) it doesn't matter, but if all hardware suddenly change then it's very suspicious and you need to re-authenticate. Virtualization software usually is not able to simulate all sorts of hardware but just some includes generic hardware, so the installation in VirtualBox/Parallels/VMWare is recognized as a different system and requires a its own license.

(A trick that works in an XP in VirtualBox is to never "shutdown" XP, but to pause(freeze) the virtual machine. XP asks only at boot/login for activation, so as long as it doesn't reboot you can use it longer than 30 days.)

[bmike]

I doubt it is a question of whatever virtualization solution you use.

The issue is that the authentication server recognizes a genuine installation by a list of hardware characteristics, if you change one component (RAM etc.) it doesn't matter, but if all hardware suddenly change then it's very suspicious and you need to re-authenticate. Virtualization software usually is not able to simulate all sorts of hardware but just some includes generic hardware, so the installation in VirtualBox/Parallels/VMWare is recognized as a different system and requires a its own license.

(A trick that works in an XP in VirtualBox is to never "shutdown" XP, but to pause(freeze) the virtual machine. XP asks only at boot/login for activation, so as long as it doesn't reboot you can use it longer than 30 days.)

No.

I'm running 1 copy of Win7 in BootCamp, and the same copy in Parallels.
When doing the Parallels install it points at the BootCamp partition and eventually installs tools there to make it all work.
AutoCAD is also authenticating fine, whether under BootCamp or virtually in Parallels.

A friend who is running VMWare (and not happy with the 3d support) is having issues with BootCamp and his virtual setup, specifically when using AutoCAD. He is switching to Parallels so that he has a smoother setup when switching between a clean boot (for CAD intensive stuff), and when he runs VM.

[michaliszissiou]

so as long as it doesn't reboot you can use it longer than 30 days

Thanks.

[sepo]

Frederik
I would recommend boot-camp. I run it on my mac book pro, desktop pro and Imac 27". It works really good and you do not have any lagging which people experience due to sharing RAM.

[Frederik]

Thanks again all...!
Much appreciated...

I gave my sister in law all your advices...
She tried making a boot camp, but the system failed...
What she'll do now - I don't know...

[michaliszissiou]

Well

[Jean Lemire]

Hi Frederik, hi folks.

Tell your sister to follow exactly the procedure given by Apple:

1 - Buy a windows disc. I bough Windows 7 Family Premium Edition last year for 224 $ CAN.

2 - Start the Mac.

3 - Open the Utilities folder.

4 - Start the BootCamp assistant.

5 - Follow the BootCamp assistant instruction. When prompted to set-up the Windows partition on your hard drive, think about which softwares you will need and how many space for your file you may need. Don't use a too small partition. On my Mac Book Pro, I have a 750 Gigs hard drive. I set up the windows partition at 200 Gigs and left the remaining 550 Gigs for the Mac OS.

When everything will be completed, you will be able to boot as follow:

1 - Start the Mac and do nothing. The Mac OS will boot.

2 - Start the Mac and immediately press and hold the Alt key. When you see two icons, one for Mac OS and one for Windows, use the right arrow key to select Windows and then press the Return key to boot Windows.

In either operating system you can use the Restart function to restart in either system and also to tell the Mac to always start with the operating system of your choice. Of course, you can still press the Alt key on startup and change your mind and, of course, you can also use the startup control pannel to tell your Mac from which partition it should start.

Just ideas.

[Frederik]

Thanks for the advice, Jean...!
I've sent it to my sister in law...

[caronte01]

On my macbook I have parallels and an old copy of windows xp. I use it to run autocad (2008, if i'm not mistaken) and other misc sofware. I have 8 GB of ram on this machine and have allocated 3 GB to parallels. Windows does not see the internet, for security reasons, just my home folder.

I had bootcamp and parallels at one time, using the same windows install, but windows complained, because it thought there were two different machines and asked to be reactivated. I switched to windows xp-parallels only. I use autocad for 2d work only, and the performance is more than acceptable.

You probably have an unused windows license laying around somewhere, so that can be less expensive than buying windows 7. And, xp is a lot faster than 7 under parallels.

My advice, parallels, unless some heavy 3d intensive app is needed.