A new home for SketchUp

[jpalm32]

Not late to the party, I've just been lurking on this post and I frequent the bugs forum and Ruby forum from time to time.

Some of you know me I'm Brad on the SketchUp QA team. I've been working on SketchUp since v4. I went through the @Last -> Google acquisition now from Google -> Trimble.

I love the passion this community has for SketchUp. As John said earlier, if there was no reaction we would be worried. The fact people are voicing concern about "our" baby makes me feel good. You care about SketchUp as much as I do!

From the people at Trimble I have met and talked to I can tell you...they are lot like we are, they "get" SketchUp. They know we are passionate about SketchUp. They know our users are passionate about SketchUp. They know our users are not just some people that use SketchUp, it's a community of people who don't want their baby being touched by a stranger.

I excited about the future! I don't know what is going to happen in the future but I'm moving forward with the SketchUp team to Trimble to get this party started.

Kiss Kiss

[kerabe]

This is big news. I can't do anything about what is going on so I will wait and see. Funny how everyone is saying that Trimble won't support Apple/Mac products when their Facebook page is allowing you to win an Apple product

[jpalm32]

So he (Mark Harrison) rides in, drops the bomb and scatters!
Not good.
Void of real assurance.
Doesn't stick around to answer some questons. Not good from a PR point.

Ah, come on! John Bacus has replied many times - the product manager. And several of the SketchUp team has been replying on varius channrls. Your claim is unjust.

My bad! Sorry to all!

[ishboo]

John Bacus just updated the official blog post: http://sketchupdate.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... 5257379409

Hi everyone,

Just catching up on this thread again— it has grown since I last checked! Seems like the worries you guys are expressing fall into a couple common themes, which I'll address below. Ping the thread again if there's something else you'd particularly paid attention to that I missed, ask it again.

For the folks worried that we'll stop offering SketchUp for free, "The free version of SketchUp is an important part of our world as well, and that isn’t changing in the least."

For the folks worried that we'll only pay attention to the AEC industry, "If you’re one of the many, many people who use SketchUp for something else—from education to woodworking, geo-modeling to movie-making—rest assured that there will be a SketchUp for you, too."

If you're just worried because you don't like Trimble's website, don't judge a book by its cover

For the folks worried we'll change the name, "SketchUp" seems like a perfectly fine name to me.

For the folks who think this is our big chance to write a 64-bit, mutithreaded Linux client build, see previous answers on our user forums. The core technological principles haven't changed either.


john

[Jeff Hammond]

I cannot understand how many of you would think for a minute, that a company that charges premium prices for good AEC/BIM software, is somehow going to revise SketchUp into a cheap/free "BIM for everyone." It is nothing but a pipe dream. Wake up !

right.. i get that.
but at the same time, i would think sketchup itself would get a little trickle down.. maybe a teaser for the big dogs but for small timers, there might be something helpful in there (at least something better than viewing component stats or generate report..)


i'm maybe concerned that ruby devs won't get much more to work with.. from a business point of view, it wouldn't make much sense to open up the api any further.. if they did, ruby developers would be able to create plugins that would directly compete with the add-ons..

(of course, all of this is assuming we'll be seeing a more modular sketchup.. a sketchup that you don't only hookup little individual plugins to but one that you can plug into other apps or other programs can plug into it..)

[Hieru]

For the folks who think this is our big chance to write a 64-bit, mutithreaded Linux client build, see previous answers on our user forums. The core technological principles haven't changed either.

Considering what the devs have said about 64 bit in the past, I'm happy to accept this. I do think that 64 bit can help with performance, but it clearly isn't a magic bullet (just look to Adobe). The message so far is that better use of resources will deliver better performance and I'm happy to go along with that.

My only reservation is the issue of 3rd party apps that would benefit from multi-core processing (e.g.Twighight). Would it be possible to allow 3rd party plugins to utilise multicore processing without having to re-engineer SU?

[Dan Rathbun]

Would it be possible to allow 3rd party plugins to utilise multicore processing without having to re-engineer SU?

Surely Yes.. IF they ran in their own process.

They would need to be written in a language and compiled with a compiler that supported multicore. So running under SketchUp's embedded Ruby is out.

Technically.. they would not really be plugins. They would be other applets / applications that need a means of communication with the SketchUp process. IO pipes, TCP, UDP, or whatever.

[thomthom]

Would it be possible to allow 3rd party plugins to utilise multicore processing without having to re-engineer SU?

Yea, they can do their stuff in their own process - which some do. There is nothing in SketchUp that prevents anyone from doing so.

[jbacus]

My only reservation is the issue of 3rd party apps that would benefit from multi-core processing (e.g.Twighight). Would it be possible to allow 3rd party plugins to utilise multicore processing without having to re-engineer SU?

Not only is this possible today, but it is frequently done. Most rendering engines utilize multicore processing— even those that work as "plugins" for SketchUp.

john
.

[arail1]

This takes me back to the time when Google bought SketchUp and the forum members were speculating about which company 'should' have bought SketchUp. My response then, as now, was: Why does someone else have to own SketchUp? Why can't SketchUp own Sketchup? Doesn't the $500 pro licenses generate enough money to pay the developers salaries?

Google bought SketchUp during the initial phase of the Internet stock market boom when giants were competing with one another to see who could buy the most small companies. It was assumed that this was a natural and inevitable phase of software history but I think it had more to do with testosterone than any natural arc of software development. How did it benefit SketchUp? The optimistic response at the time was that Google could bring it's extraordinary wealth to allow SketchUp to really grow compared to it's pre-Google days. But it didn't. There were changes and improvements but not at a speed or depth greater than when it was privately owned by At Last.

No matter how you look at this development, it means that SketchUp is no longer a company that is first and foremost answerable to it's users. It's answerable to Trimble shareholders. True, after being bought by Google, SketchUp was answerable to Google shareholders but it was such minor part of the whole Google business enterprise that we could at least hope it wasn't noticed too much. Not now. Now it will be, for better or worse, a function of a relatively small companies balance sheet and that is what will dictate all decisions concerning the software.

I say we put out a world wide call for the users of SketchUp to buy it away from Trimble. How much would you pay to be a part owner? $10? $100? If there are 3 million users and one third of them pitched in, how much would it take?

[SurfingAlien]

I think 'push/pull' is patented.. but instead of paying multimillion $$ for the name of a tool, they'd probably just call it something else.

exactly... ViaCAD has push/pull like modeling since v.8 and imports SKP files.
still, I spend 99% of my time on SketchUp and 1% on it... LOL

[Hieru]

Not only is this possible today, but it is frequently done. Most rendering engines utilize multicore processing— even those that work as "plugins" for SketchUp.

Many calls for 64bit SU come from Twilight and VR4SU users who complain about the limitations of working inside SU. Other than the issue of handling high-poly models, I thought there was a problem with the performance of these apps being throttled by the limitation of SU being 32bit?

I could be wrong as I use an external render engine and I'm therefore unfamiliar with the exact nature of the concerns raised by these users.

[thomthom]

I thought there was a problem with the performance of these apps being throttled by the limitation of SU being 32bit?

Not performance - but stability. As, for instance VfSU - which I use, will crash SketchUp if a render consumes more memory than what a 32bit application can address. Before the limit was 2GB - since SketchUp became LARGE_ADRESS_AWARE this limit was bumped up to 4GB under 64bit OS.
Performance is not affected, VfSU makes use of all CPU power available.

[Gaieus]

It's mainly a memory issue (therefore rendered images have a "natural" size limitation - probably also based on scene complexity).

[Hieru]

Thanks guys - that makes things a little clearer.

I was just thinking about whether these things could be addressed without a need for SU to go 64bit. The devs have probably already got a better handle on this than me

[jpalm32]

As a free user, I would pay $99 for it now. W/O Layout & Solids.
What percentage of free user would do that??
I lost interest in SU until I found this site. It is the best independent product site/blog ever!
It is all about the great attitude you people have. Thank you.
On another note: If we are are worried, think of all the render companies that depend on SU for their income..

[andybot]

On another note: If we are are worried, think of all the render companies that depend on SU for their income..

How so? Most rendering apps have plugins for a raft of 3D modeling programs.

What I would fear most is the loss of the active ruby development that happens here. I agree, Sketchup would be far less useful without the contributions of the ruby gurus.

[arail1]

I think I've figured this out.

A big and growing field is 3D scanning. Architects, crime scene technicians, studios, etc. are all moving towards 3D scanning as a way to generate 'as built' information. You might have seen a program on the History Channel about scanning the inside of a Gothic cathedral in 3D to reveal structural problems (fascinating show).

Trimble is a big player in this field.

Doing a brief search of 3D scanning companies reveals a problem - in what format are you delivering the generated information to your client? What kind of software does your client have to have to receive and process this information? Most of the 3D scanning software comes with some kind of 3D modeling functions but they're all pretty lame. The assumption is that the client is going to port the information into their own software - Revit or whatever. But Revit or AutoCAD are expensive solutions and not appropriate in all fields.

I think the aim here is to have a full 3D scanning solution that includes software (SketchUp) that can assemble all the point cloud data in a usable manner for the client without the client having to have specialized software on their end.

I don't know to what extent this scenario would help us or hurt us but I think that's what's happening here.

[cuttingedge]

My thoughts on this transition.

Still a big question mark...why Google ever sell sketchup?.. I believe Sketchup’s being associated with Google made it big and popular. After all the developments in the recent years, with but a few inputs on their part which still resulted in a phenomenal growth of users, how could Google just abandon it?? Don’t they see the potential that we all did? …Are there not enough pro users to sustain it’s profitability? Later on, when they see buildings and important structures created thru this software, wouldn't they want the pride of getting associated with it. I guess not.Im not sure about Trimble.

I so love sketchup. I think its one of the best software and most indispensable tool there is in architectural field.

After criticizing sketchup a lot in the earlier release, I ended up a becoming sketchup addict. Although I must admit, sketchup (the generic) doesn’t measure up with recent developments of its counterparts. The slow performance and inability to handle high poly models is just becoming frustrating. But hey, I still stick with it…(hoping it improves)

Ive built a lot with sketchup and will continue to do so.

Hope Trimble keep it free, keep it open-source, and address the clamor for a speedier sketchup. Then they stay in the game.

Hope this forum remains. I love the culture of generosity in here (esp the script writers) Ive gain a lot by just reading thru the posts.

edd

[jgb]

YIPES!!!!!!!

Couldn't spend the time reading all 25 pages, but here is my $0.02.

I have seen too many instances where a company acquires the competition for various reasons, NONE of which were to benefit the customer or end user. Witness IBM buying over Lotus, which I will use as an example. Wordperfect is another, as are all the Canadian income tax programs.

The reason for acquisition is either to pillage the patents, corner the market, eliminate competition, grab the super skills, and to upgrade their own products, until the competitive distinction is moot.

Then KILL the acquisition. IBM wanted Lotus Notes. IBM now uses MS EXCEL internally, not Lotus 123, which was exclusive at IBM prior the takeover. Neither of which exist today. I was on contract to IBM at the time of the takeover as a Lotus 123 developer. A year after I left they wanted me back to convert all my 123 spreadsheets to EXCEL.

If Trimble is planning to incorporate the SU engine into their products, where will that leave SU in the future? Except for being free, there is no competitive advantage for Trimble to keep SU, free or Pro.

They will probably release Ver 9, as it is well down the pipeline, but what about Version 10 or 11?

Google has the great reputation of being a great place to have ideas and try them out. Does the new owner have a similar environment?

Google has some reputation of listening to outside ideas, maybe not so much in the SU community via these forums, but better than most companies.
IBM would only listen to clients who were willing to pay to have their ideas implemented. What about Trimbles track record??

Be afraid, be very afraid.......

[numerobis]

exactly... ViaCAD has push/pull like modeling since v.8 and imports SKP files.
still, I spend 99% of my time on SketchUp and 1% on it... LOL

thanks for mentioning ViaCAD... i wasn't aware of it (and Shark). Looks very interesting. I will test it...

[kwistenbiebel]

My only reservation is the issue of 3rd party apps that would benefit from multi-core processing (e.g.Twighight). Would it be possible to allow 3rd party plugins to utilise multicore processing without having to re-engineer SU?

Not only is this possible today, but it is frequently done. Most rendering engines utilize multicore processing— even those that work as "plugins" for SketchUp.

john
.

As ThomTom recently replied when I and others brought up 64 bit.
People "say" they want 64 bit, but underlying they just want Sketchup to run more smoothly...
It is having a more responsive Sketchup to particular tasks and to higher polycounts.
Whatever is needed to serve that purpose is fine, even if Sketchup would be a 1-bit app

[MrMikeEsq]

I sincerely hope that there are going to be ties between SketchUp and 3D scanning. This was my first thought when I saw Trimble mentioned, but it sounds too good to be true!

[iichiversii]

YouTube "Trimble sketchup" there's a clip of a Trimble product being scanned via a kinect sensor and visualised in SU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z2bwSYD_gs

[MrMikeEsq]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STbUx76vx1A
Maybe one day, eh

[dazza]

"I think part of this worry is that users could be afraid that this move is really to compete than to innovate. Just remember those numerous plugins by your biggest fans. And because of these fans, your software has the be ability for complex modeling, BIM, rendering and animation. So, in a way it is limitless compared to the $3,000 drafting programs! Now that I think about it, what makes SketchUp so unique is that it has nothing to do with technology, it's community. People work so hard on new plugins because they believe in your software, they even offer to help and inspire newcomers. This is pride, and I recommend your team lets that become your navigation as SketchUp develops further. Good luck!" -- Christopher Vela
Mark

Thats awesome!

[bmike]

Perhaps we should start a new thread, a Trimble wish list of sorts for SketchUp moving forward.

What I fear is that the core of SketchUp - the ability to draw / 3d model pretty much anything you want will erode away towards specialized applications. And that LayOut will be abandoned.

What I'd like to see:

1. If Trimble wants to use the 'engine' - fine - improve it, adapt it, etc. - but please leave a free or paid (I'm a pro user, and happy to pay (reasonably) for my tools) version that takes those improvements to the engine as basic and simple as possible out of the box.

2. Update Ruby support, and keep the open source nature of plug in writing. Perhaps even offering a 'plugstore' environment for plugins that Trimble hosts - there could be plugins that work with different modules of your software - and of course we could have the nearly limitless creativity of the current plugins migrated over, or offered standalone (much like the Mac App Store environment - buy in or out of the store, depending on the vendor).

3. Speed it all up - you must have some pretty smart guys and gals behind the scenes there working on your geo stuff. While I hope SU doesn't get bogged down with arcane BIM libraries and tags (outside of a specific module that could be bought or leased separately) - there is likely to be some applicable crossover to the core tech. Let the Googler's stretch their wings and keep their independence - while cross fertilizing with your team. Keep and make it easy to start drawing, and then peel away layers as needed to add complexity, data, visualization, etc. - through modules, plugins, etc. etc.

4. Keep and improve LayOut. Its my primary drawing and presentation tool for jumping from 3d to 2d - for schematic plans and for construction documents. Until contractors have work site tough slates (large ones, too) - paper and prints are still in our future for job sites. LayOut needs improvements for speed and the back end needs to be adjusted to keep the same tool behavior as SketchUp (the current version sucks when jumping back and forth - pick, move, draw, etc. are all different enough to make you go mad). If I learn one, I should be able to navigate the basics in both (aside from the finer points of referencing, etc.)

5. Keep a Mac version. This would make me

Lots more, of course, and every use is different. Coming at this from residential / lite commercial and woodworking / furniture - the core of SketchUp is as good as it gets for going from idea to built project. It needs work - everything does - but as a tool its promise is pretty incredible - especially when seen up against some of the other 'CAD' packages.

I don't need a 'computer aided design' program. I need tools that get out of the way, and let me adapt their use to the task at hand.

[valerostudio]

I hate to even say it, but I would have rather seen Autodesk buy it.

[jenujacob]

I hate to even say it, but I would have rather seen Autodesk buy it.

who knows.. maybe trimble would surprise us all... a good surprise that is!

[thomthom]

I hate to even say it, but I would have rather seen Autodesk buy it.

I generally find Autodesk products as FrustrationWare...