Way to make grooves or reveals?  Topic is solved

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Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby pbacot » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:59 pm

Does anyone have a method (I guess I mean plugin here)to make the reveals or joints, as in the example of a drawer cabinet (picture posted). I made the surfaces within the joints white to show up.

I started with a simple cubicle form. I applied single line work (from CAD) to delineate the parts. I am not modelling this the way it is to be built with all the boards and joints (like the woodworkers here). I just want the exterior appearance. Making all the joints "manually" is time consuming. I used follow me and push pull.

And please excuse the veneer on the second drawer. It's just an example, not the final texture.
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby Dave R » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:21 pm

Peter, are the white lines faces? If you have narrow faces between the boards a simple Push/Pull would do. If you don't have a face, maybe Chris Fullmer's Greeble plugn would do the trick for you.
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby jeff hammond » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:21 pm

i did something like that recently with profile builder..

basically, i made the box then group it.. i drew all my horizontal lines then used a square profile with profile builder (the resulting geometry ends up grouped)...

then did the verticals the same way..

i used outer shell to join all the groups as one then used solid tool's subtract to cut the grooves out of the box..


probably not the fastest methods but it's the one that i thought of at the time and it was pretty easy..

that said, profile builder is a $ plugin so i'm not sure if it's worth 30 bucks if you won't be using it very often..
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby jeff hammond » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:30 pm

oh.

i just tried another way and it was super quick.. using the offset tool and solid tools.

i'm on my way to dinner now.. i'll post the method later if someone hasn't posted something way better yet.
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby pbacot » Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:23 am

Well you must eat, I GUESS, regardless of my very important problem... :-D

I am trying to figure out what method you used given those tools. I am in suspense.

(I actually did do this one the slow way already, but it's a technique I could use often.)
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby pbacot » Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:34 am

Dave R wrote:Peter, are the white lines faces? If you have narrow faces between the boards a simple Push/Pull would do. If you don't have a face, maybe Chris Fullmer's Greeble plugn would do the trick for you.


Dave,

Those are grooves that I made.

It's pretty easy to have a box, for this modern sort of cabinet and lines representing the drawers etc. In fact that's how the CAD elevations look, that I transferred in SU. Then I have to go and create all the other parallel lines at very tiny intervals, clean up all the little intersections, then push pull. I used follow me and also duplicating the grooves.

Greeble looks like the sort of plugin I was looking for. :thumb: Funny I didn't know to search for "greeble". It works in most cases though there's a possible need to erase faces and lines afterwards, but it makes all the grooves accurately and fast. A greeble that is based on edges, instead of faces would be more effective here.
Thanks a lot, Peter
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby jeff hammond » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:52 pm

pbacot wrote:Well you must eat, I GUESS, regardless of my very important problem... :-D

I am trying to figure out what method you used given those tools. I am in suspense.

(I actually did do this one the slow way already, but it's a technique I could use often.)

hmmm
dinner evolved into something else and now I'm somewhere without a computer.
I'll show what I was thinking a bit later today
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby jeff hammond » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:36 pm

here's a vid...




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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby Dave R » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:57 pm

Excellent!
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby pbacot » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:24 pm

Very groovy Jeff. I just had to laughed it was so cool. thanks for making the little video. Actually hard to put into words, I bet.

So this way I would not use my imported line layout, except as a guide. And the initial groove geometry is not made in place really. I think this is faster than greeble for this. I LIKE solid tools.

Thanks again. (I hope that dinner evolved into something nice?)

Peter
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby brodie » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:44 pm

I have to create this sort of geometry on a fairly regular basis. Typically I bring in the dwg and build the geometry as you normally wood with lines representing these grooves. Then use Offset at say, .25" (for an overall .5" groove). Offset all of your faces. This can be sped up a lot if you know that when you begin the Offset tool with nothing selected you can hover over the surface and double click - it will use the last offset distance you used.

then just push/pull the appropriate faces out. You'll have some cleanup on the edges to do and then you can run a cleanup script to get rid of any excess lines.

-Brodie
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby jeff hammond » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:56 pm

if I were doing this with imported lines, it'd be with profile builder..
i'll show you that technique a little later.
it's pretty painless.
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby pbacot » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:51 pm

thanks Brodie and Jeff

I think the offset and pushpull out method doesn't work that well here as I really need to start with the outside dimensions of the piece. Greeble comes close in that same vein, but there are problems and clean up there. Also not all edges are to be indented so the offset creates more than I want. I should look at this with edge tools.

I just think this sort of thing should be in a plugin. Maybe I will have to learn to write one. Think of all the joints on building facades or just making joints in coplanar things like window sashes or between doors, so they show in renderings. All could be done starting with the one edge.

I look forward to the profile builder technique. I should look at PB and 1001 bits. Don't know why I haven't go into those...
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby pbacot » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:48 pm

Jeff,

I got profile builder. I'm sure it will pay-off though I shouldn't be spending the money right now...

So this is the process (See if I am right):

It needs a solid group for the basic shape. Make a box and group. On the outside of the group draw or apply lines. Select all edges. In Profile Builder use a square profile and set the insertion point at the center (I don't know if rectangular shape will work). Apply profile to all the edges. Select all resulting solid group "sticks" and use solid tools/"Union". Apply "Subtract" with this to your solid group box. Works beautifully! Any other pointers?

Thanks for the idea and all your helpfulness.

Peter
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby jeff hammond » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:15 am

pbacot wrote:Jeff,

I got profile builder. I'm sure it will pay-off though I shouldn't be spending the money right now...

So this is the process (See if I am right):

It needs a solid group for the basic shape. Make a box and group. On the outside of the group draw or apply lines. Select all edges. In Profile Builder use a square profile and set the insertion point at the center (I don't know if rectangular shape will work). Apply profile to all the edges. Select all resulting solid group "sticks" and use solid tools/"Union". Apply "Subtract" with this to your solid group box. Works beautifully! Any other pointers?

Thanks for the idea and all your helpfulness.

Peter


use a rectangle that's twice as wide as the depth of the grove you'd like (if you want a grove that's 1cm x 1cm then use a rectangle that's 1cm x 2cm with the insertion set to middle.. (or use a square if the groove is to be twice as wide as it is deep.. it all depends on the shape of the groove but if you want a square groove then use a rectangle profile.. if that makes sense

you've probably already tried to use an exact same sized profile as the desired groove with the insertion point set to an edge but when doing multi direction edges, some of the extrusions are on the proper side while some aren't' and you can't choose to flip them because it will make the same mistake on the other lines.

i'm guessing it's something to do with the direction of the line which fredo made a plugin to reverse but that would be a headache to go through each line and figure out it's direction..

so the 2x wider than desired depth works out good in most circumstance..

other than that, you have the workflow mostly dialed in.. one thing i would do is make it easy to select all the individual groups prior to joining them all together.. in the case of your cabinet, i would ⌘A then deselect the cabinet group (as in-- all the profile builder groups are selected and the lines you used are as well.. then run outer shell from solid tools..

you'll get a warning saying 'some items aren't solid groups' and it's referring to the lines.. you can still run the tool and it will just ignore those lines but still join all the PB groups into one solid..

fwiw, one of the biggest timesavers in sketchup is how ace you are at selecting.. the above method is one keystroke then one mouse click with mod key.. or simply one keystroke if you happen to have the cabinet hidden or on an invisible layer.. easy peasy. :)
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby pbacot » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:05 am

but when doing multi direction edges, some of the extrusions are on the proper side while some aren't' and you can't choose to flip them because it will make the same mistake on the other lines.


Exactly!

Thanks for the tips. I keep forgetting to try "shell".
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby pilou » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:32 am

Seems multiface-offset by Remus + inverse selection by Tig
+ Joint PushPull by fredo 6 can make some tricks in 3 clicks ;)

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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby pbacot » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:53 pm

right Pilou. I will look at those too. My original approach was that the main form of the surface stays where it is and grooves are subtracted from it. It seemed to me that these grooves should be positioned by single lines, and given standard width and depth input. Buildings and many things are made up with grooves or joints defining every part. The quickest and simplest way is best. Surface lines (edges) can often represent it but co-planar lines in SU do not render and must be added to final images selectively.
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby haynesc » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:58 pm

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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby EarthMover » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:11 pm

Thanks Chris. The 1001 bits tool is a great tool, but doesn't quite fit the bill. It just creates grooved via a face select with an incremental offset. We need more of a "engraver" tool that works via preselected edges. Hopefully TIG can come up with something. If he can't do it, no one can. ;)
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby cuttingedge » Fri May 04, 2012 8:10 pm

I worked on joinery company and most of the time offset or copying lines can outline the groove. and do a joint-push pull all at the same time.

Once one groove is outlined, copy or array to as many as required. quick select by doing a crossing in parallel front or side view. then joint push-pull to give it a uniform recess.

this works with curved faces as well.
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby rv1974 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:02 am

Pilou wrote:Seems multiface-offset by Remus + inverse selection by Tig
+ Joint PushPull by fredo 6 can make some tricks in 3 clicks ;)


Windowizer would do it with one OK click (bonus: material separation)
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby jmqrsq » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:50 pm

Has this been solved with a plugin yet? If so could someone kindly point me to the download? Thank you!
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?  Topic is solved

Postby pbacot » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:35 pm

jmqrsq wrote:Has this been solved with a plugin yet? If so could someone kindly point me to the download? Thank you!

If you look back in the thread a few ideas were discussed. Profile builder for one. There's not a one-shot solution, I don't think. What I was imagining was more of line(s) on surface(s) , select,run ruby, default setting box (depth and width), OK, and --boom --grooves in surface(s), no cleanup or other steps to do.
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby rv1974 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:34 pm

IMO The lack of efficient rock solid groove maker is one of the narrowest bottle necks (in SU-ArchViz field). I requested it over 9000 times here and there but no luck. Would gladly buy it for sure.
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby srx » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:03 am

Maybe the Inverse of Lattice Maker http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=244981#p244981

...and with boolean tools you make groovs :)
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby srx » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:16 am

And there is also Bevel Maker https://youtu.be/ye4mcp0TPy8
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby rv1974 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:04 am

None of mentioned above work with preselected edges (THE only edges I want to be grooved).
The only combo that more or less 'holds the water' is S4U Frame Maker+ Booltools 2,
but still, there's a lot of space for improvement.
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby pilou » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:05 am

Maybe this can help you...
Sdmitch has made an X,Y "Inflator" component(s)
Ask him!

GIF_inflator.gif
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Re: Way to make grooves or reveals?

Postby rv1974 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:43 pm

How does this relate to groove making?
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